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2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

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Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Sounds to me like they embraced the bill they sent to the senate. Did anyone of those guys actually say they embraced the shutdown?

Sweet. There's lots of bills I support that have no chance in hell of passing. Can I break out the champagne to?

Passing a bill in the House doesn't mean ****. A bill becomes law only with the Senate, House, and President's signature. Didn't you ever watch Saturday morning cartoons?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Sounds to me like they embraced the bill they sent to the senate. Did anyone of those guys actually say they embraced the shutdown?

Bachmann insisted that the GOP would ultimately be rewarded for standing firm. “People will be very grateful,” she said.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Bachmann insisted that the GOP would ultimately be rewarded for standing firm. “People will be very grateful,” she said.

Yeah, and Bachmann isn't running for office ever again and probably will go to jail for what she did during her Presidential run. But, hey, she's standing on principle.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Sitting back here and enjoying the show. Nothing's more amusing than watching an evil ideology self destruct because the people driving the bus are completely insane. Never thought I'd see this day coming, but when Useless Harry Reid is the guy playing chess while his GOP counterparts are playing Russian Roulette, you know you have serious problems. Its beyond obvious that modern day conservatism has no brains or balls. Anybody who longs for the mythical days of right wing fiscal sanity needs to abandon the GOP and form your own party.

http://theweek.com/article/index/25...cans-are-pushing-toward-a-government-shutdown

I'd also like to know how adding anti-contraception language to a budget bill makes sense, but I already know the answer. Just a suggestion knucks', but basing a party on its rank and file's frustration with not being laid in 30 years probably isn't the best way to go, no? ;)
I don't think I follow politics as close as a lot of people on this board, but hasn't it been pretty common for the past 200+ years to use the "power of the purse" to influence political causes that are really non-budget related? In fact, isn't that pretty much how all of our federal government works?
 
I don't think I follow politics as close as a lot of people on this board, but hasn't it been pretty common for the past 200+ years to use the "power of the purse" to influence political causes that are really non-budget related? In fact, isn't that pretty much how all of our federal government works?


Not on the brink of a shutdown or debt default. This is pretty much unprecedented. Even in 1995-96, the debate was about fiscal matters, not contraception or oil pipelines. IMHO this was a big miscalculation. In keeping the demands fiscal in nature the GOP could base their dangerous strategy on something related to the upcoming deadline. *** does contraception have to do with funding the federal govt, and if they felt so strongly about it why didn't they address the matter during the year?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Not on the brink of a shutdown or debt default. This is pretty much unprecedented. Even in 1995-96, the debate was about fiscal matters, not contraception or oil pipelines. IMHO this was a big miscalculation. In keeping the demands fiscal in nature the GOP could base their dangerous strategy on something related to the upcoming deadline. *** does contraception have to do with funding the federal govt, and if they felt so strongly about it why didn't they address the matter during the year?

Exactly. If this was all "fiscal" related I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's not.

Fact is, however, that contraception/abortion is more attractive to the GOP than anything fiscal.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

. *** does contraception have to do with funding the federal govt, and if they felt so strongly about it why didn't they address the matter during the year?
You act like its the first time someone threw crap into a bill before. What does some art museum in NY have to do with aid for katrina?( made up example but there was plenty of crap thrown in there and also in aid for Sandy victims)
 
I don't think I follow politics as close as a lot of people on this board, but hasn't it been pretty common for the past 200+ years to use the "power of the purse" to influence political causes that are really non-budget related? In fact, isn't that pretty much how all of our federal government works?

Not really. Up until Jimmy Carter, the govt often shutdown but that simply meant workers didn't get paid; they still worked during such times. His a.g. issued an opinion saying non-essential workers couldn't work if they were not getting paid for it.

Likewise, the debt ceiling was essentially automatically raised under the old Gephardt rule. Newt abolished that one. But even then the no votes were always symbolic. The parties always made sure enough votes were made to raise it without any fuss.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Exactly. If this was all "fiscal" related I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's not.

Fact is, however, that contraception/abortion is more attractive to the GOP than anything fiscal.

Its all power related and has been for years.
 
Its all power related and has been for years.

Which is all well and good until the debt gets defaulted on. People are waaayyyy underestimating the recklessness of the Teabaggers. They see no problem with a default, as they mistakenly believe the country will just make debt payments first which its not authorized to do without congressional action. Either The Boner goes against these people, and immediately loses his job, or they take us over the default cliff. When people think they're on a holy crusade, as opposed to just doing a job, they don't act rationally.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Sure, of course. Big donors for "sex" stuff. I can't wait till the world economy goes to **** when we default on the debt.

I'm big on that too. I have about 13K of credit card/medical debt and nothing in the way of assets. I make my payments because it's the right thing to do and because I don't want to destroy my credit rating in case I want credit again (like if I buy a house). If we default on the debt interest rates are going to go sky high and I'm not going to want a loan again in my lifetime. So my motivation for paying the debt I have now is...? Better to save the cash and spend it at the grocery store...assuming there is anything to buy. Just glad my income comes from a private insurance company, not just the government. If that gets defaulted on I'll at least have money coming in.

ETA: And before anyone gets all high and mighty and tells me paying my debt will still be the right thing to do, the government will have just showed me that it isn't. :)
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

From the Onion

If Congress is unable to pass legislation that will fund the government by midnight tonight, the U.S. government will shut down. Here is what a government shutdown means for you:
•All national parks and zoos will be closed, but animals will be fed and cared for by Sens. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) and Tom Harkin (D-IA)
•No trash collection in Washington, D.C., which means the only solution is for residents to eat their own garbage
•Those who died and are honored in the Holocaust Museum will become de-memorialized and will no longer be resting in peace
•Old man with giant beard who walks hundreds of steps to light the gas lamp in the Statue of Liberty every night will be unemployed
•You will still be able to send and receive mail, but any attempt to poison government officials will have to be held off until they return to their offices after the shutdown ends
•This probably won’t have any actual effect on your marriage, but it’s better to blame it on this than facing what the real issues are
•Any harm that may occur to you during the shutdown will still affect your body in real life. Essentially, if you die in the shutdown, you die for real.
•Most government workers will be furloughed—a procedure that involves halting their pay, sending them home, and then castrating them with a gelding knife in front of their spouses
•Realistically, you won’t be affected by this very much in your day-to-day life, but you’ll feel the full effects during the 2014 midterm election when you lose your seat in Congress
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

I find it telling that flaggy, fishy, and old pio are absent today. I'm guessing even they aren't buying what the tea party idiots are selling in this fight. Hell, my neighbor is a huge republican and even he was saying the GOP is being asinine on this one.

Au contraire. I just try to never interfere with a circle jerk. Carry on, boys.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Not on the brink of a shutdown or debt default. This is pretty much unprecedented. Even in 1995-96, the debate was about fiscal matters, not contraception or oil pipelines. IMHO this was a big miscalculation. In keeping the demands fiscal in nature the GOP could base their dangerous strategy on something related to the upcoming deadline. *** does contraception have to do with funding the federal govt, and if they felt so strongly about it why didn't they address the matter during the year?
Contraception has nothing to do with funding the federal government.

If, under normal circumstances, the Republicans pass some bill dealing with contraception, the Senate won't go along, or Obama vetoes it. Everyone knows that. So they decided to hold the budget hostage. It's a negotiating game of chicken. They won't give on the budget unless the Democrats give on something the Republicans want.

Now, to my way of thinking the Republicans are acting kind of foolish. I mean, if you're going to the mat with something, you might as well ask for something big in return. But the withholding of their agreement on a budget is entirely appropriate if they choose to use it as a negotiating tactic. Each side has to decide how much and where they want to compromise.

One side or the other, or both may choose not to compromise. Won't surprise me. But they each have to ask themselves how much harm they are willing to do to the country in exchange.

If the results are going to be as catastrophic as all the chicken littles in this thread proclaim, I suspect you'll see the Dems give somewhere. If no compromise, I think that's a pretty good signal they're not half as worried about the outcome as most of you here are, and at the end of the day the Republicans will just give up.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Au contraire. I just try to never interfere with a circle jerk. Carry on, boys.
As opposed to the GWoT thread, which is brimming with patriotism and bipartisanship.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

As opposed to the GWoT thread, which is brimming with patriotism and bipartisanship.

Nobody said anything about patriotism. Besides, what difference would it make to people who don't much like America? Other people, who "cling to their guns and religion" don't count, right? I'd recommend you not bend over to pick up the hand sanitizer.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Contraception has nothing to do with funding the federal government.

If, under normal circumstances, the Republicans pass some bill dealing with contraception, the Senate won't go along, or Obama vetoes it. Everyone knows that. So they decided to hold the budget hostage. It's a negotiating game of chicken. They won't give on the budget unless the Democrats give on something the Republicans want.

Now, to my way of thinking the Republicans are acting kind of foolish. I mean, if you're going to the mat with something, you might as well ask for something big in return. But the withholding of their agreement on a budget is entirely appropriate if they choose to use it as a negotiating tactic. Each side has to decide how much and where they want to compromise.

One side or the other, or both may choose not to compromise. Won't surprise me. But they each have to ask themselves how much harm they are willing to do to the country in exchange.

If the results are going to be as catastrophic as all the chicken littles in this thread proclaim, I suspect you'll see the Dems give somewhere. If no compromise, I think that's a pretty good signal they're not half as worried about the outcome as most of you here are, and at the end of the day the Republicans will just give up.

What compromise would you suggest? So far the GOP has offered no compromise. The choice is gut the health care bill, or nothing. With two additional riders the contraception thing (mind boggling, and the repeal of the Medical Device Tax.

We're going to default. 30 House Republicans (the Tea Party) are driving this ship. The vast majority of Republicans don't want to act this way but they know they'll get primaried if they don't bend over and take it. Finally the GOP is showing it's true colors. Soon, they'll nominate him.
 
What compromise would you suggest? So far the GOP has offered no compromise. The choice is gut the health care bill, or nothing. With two additional riders the contraception thing (mind boggling, and the repeal of the Medical Device Tax.

We're going to default. 30 House Republicans (the Tea Party) are driving this ship. The vast majority of Republicans don't want to act this way but they know they'll get primaried if they don't bend over and take it. Finally the GOP is showing it's true colors. Soon, they'll nominate him.
Silly to think I have the magic bullet. But unless one of these parties figures out how to take control of the house in which they are a minority, they have to deal with each other. I've been involved in a lot of negotiations. Take it or leave it, name calling, refusing to engage in discussion regardless of how foolish you think the other side is are all time proven, sure fire methods of failure in the negotiation process.
 
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