2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Wish I thought of it myself but someone had a great point about Obamacare the other day. It went along the lines of, if Obamacare is sure to be such a unworkable big govt disaster that will never be able to be implemented, why are House Republicans holding 38 votes to repeal it? If its not going to work, why give the Prez an "out" by saving him from his own failure? I'll surpress my laughter now waiting for some USCHO conservative to write that the Republicans only have the public's best interests in mind...

How is the Prez being given an "out" by saving him from his own failure? Are you talking about the lack of suit, censure, or impeachment proceeding to demand enforcement?

BTW, one other thing that the knucks' are doing: The budget cuts the IRS funding by about a quarter. The announced reason is the prevention of future audit patterns by the division similar to what happened recently, although some are claiming it is to make the funding of PPACA more difficult. I don't have the link, but one other thing that was mentioned was that they believed it'd never get past the Senate.

 

[Old Pio]

Isn't a pathway what present law does?

Are you referring to Simpson/Mazzoli, the 80's effort at immigration "reform?" If so, I'd say the available evidence is that it's been a spectacular failure. That's why we're back at the well, trying to draw more water. But I believe you're right, there was talk of a "pathway" when that measure was debated. Obviously, things didn't quite work out, since we've got several times more illegals now than we had then.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

It does make one wonder about this big evil government they're always railing against, but it's fine when it comes to sticking a magic wand up a woman's coochie. And I had no idea they were so supportive of shutting down businesses through government regulation like they are in Texas. I wonder if they'd support legislation that all gun shops had to be 200 square feet or less to meet regulations.

It's interesting to me how transparent they really are. No one that I know of has a problem with the 20 week number. No one. However, that wasn't good enough for them. They had to add the "surgical center" provision to the bill, and the magic wand provision. I heard most of Europe is in the 12-14 week range for abortion. I'd have no problem with that either.

It just really proves how Republicans are not pro-life at all. They're pro misogyny.

 

[Old Pio]

I've always been curious about the tax revenue effect of illegal immigrants. I'm sure there are countless numbers of illegal workers who are paid cash, under the the table and off the tax books. But I've often wondered about those who are using made up or stolen ssn's who then have big packinghouses withhold taxes. Without filing a tax return, there is no refund in the spring, and presumably these workers don't get ss benefits at retirement.

I've often suspected somewhere in OMB or Treasury these numbers are known, and not spoken of, and have some impact on immigration decisions that are made in Washington.

Interesting question: what's the net fiscal impact? You're probably right, somewhere in the bowels of the federal government there are probably studies which attempted to answer that question. Off the top of my head I'd guess not too many illegals stick around long enough to become Social Security eligible. There are lots of other entitlement programs. And we know that in LA and other big cities, there's a substantial business in providing phony green cards and other types of ID. I recall a "60 Minutes" segment from a few years ago where the reporter was approached on the street by a "runner." After some discussion, the reporter was taken somewhere for photos. And subsequently the "runner" showed back up with the documents. Presumably those documents would be helpful in gaining employment and applying for assistance if necessary. Then there are the burdens on state and local governments: schools, hospitals, city services, etc.
It's an interesting question and you would assume if the case could be made that illegals don't represent a net drain on governments and the economy, that somebody would have made that case. Maybe not.

 

[Old Pio]

It's interesting to me how transparent they really are. No one that I know of has a problem with the 20 week number. No one. However, that wasn't good enough for them. They had to add the "surgical center" provision to the bill, and the magic wand provision. I heard most of Europe is in the 12-14 week range for abortion. I'd have no problem with that either.

It just really proves how Republicans are not pro-life at all. They're pro misogyny.

Do the name Kermit Gosnell ring a bell? Are you naïve enough to think he's the only dude out there with a collection of fetal feet?

 

[Rover]

Interesting question: what's the net fiscal impact? You're probably right, somewhere in the bowels of the federal government there are probably studies which attempted to answer that question. Off the top of my head I'd guess not too many illegals stick around long enough to become Social Security eligible. There are lots of other entitlement programs. And we know that in LA and other big cities, there's a substantial business in providing phony green cards and other types of ID. I recall a "60 Minutes" segment from a few years ago where the reporter was approached on the street by a "runner." After some discussion, the reporter was taken somewhere for photos. And subsequently the "runner" showed back up with the documents. Presumably those documents would be helpful in gaining employment and applying for assistance if necessary. Then there are the burdens on state and local governments: schools, hospitals, city services, etc.
It's an interesting question and you would assume if the case could be made that illegals don't represent a net drain on governments and the economy, that somebody would have made that case. Maybe not.

The problem would be that those opposed to the legislation would dismiss any studies that didn't back up their position even if it was written by the Hand Of Jesus.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Do the name Kermit Gosnell ring a bell? Are you naïve enough to think he's the only dude out there with a collection of fetal feet?

And yet Newtown is irrelevant to any new laws being passed. Like I said, transparent.

 

[Old Pio]

The problem would be that those opposed to the legislation would dismiss any studies that didn't back up their position even if it was written by the Hand Of Jesus.

Whereas those in favor of the legislation would never, ever, massage the numbers to advantage their position. Because they're all free of original sin, especially hypocrisy.

 

[French Rage]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Stop talking about minor things like abortion and immigration. This threads needs to be devoted to Broccoli-gate!

 

[Old Pio]

And yet Newtown is irrelevant to any new laws being passed. Like I said, transparent.

And the connection between Newtown and demanding proper medical standards at abortion clinics is what. . .? Just keep playing the libtard calliope. Medical practitioners are licensed by states. And their facilities also must meet state standards. It's pretty clear nobody ever inspected Gosnell's charnel house. And if they did, they didn't give a sh*t. Again, how naïve do you have to be to believe he's some sort of very rare exception? Maybe we should just put these guys on the honor system.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Stop talking about minor things like abortion and immigration. This threads needs to be devoted to Broccoli-gate!

Oh, why not...

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[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

And the connection between Newtown and demanding proper medical standards at abortion clinics is what. . .? Just keep playing the libtard calliope. Medical practitioners are licensed by states. And their facilities also must meet state standards. It's pretty clear nobody ever inspected Gosnell's charnel house. And if they did, they didn't give a sh*t. Again, how naïve do you have to be to believe he's some sort of very rare exception? Maybe we should just put these guys on the honor system.

Yes, lets pass a draconian law in response to one single evil man and not pass any laws after numerous mass shootings. Makes perfect sense to me.

And here's a nice article backing up my position.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/whats-wrong-with-a-20-week-abortion-ban/

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

The problem would be that those opposed to the legislation would dismiss any studies that didn't back up their position even if it was written by the Hand Of Jesus.

Jesus was a filthy liberal hippie with dark skin. His middle name was probably Hussein! (that's what the H stands for)

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Interesting question: what's the net fiscal impact? You're probably right, somewhere in the bowels of the federal government there are probably studies which attempted to answer that question. Off the top of my head I'd guess not too many illegals stick around long enough to become Social Security eligible. There are lots of other entitlement programs. And we know that in LA and other big cities, there's a substantial business in providing phony green cards and other types of ID. I recall a "60 Minutes" segment from a few years ago where the reporter was approached on the street by a "runner." After some discussion, the reporter was taken somewhere for photos. And subsequently the "runner" showed back up with the documents. Presumably those documents would be helpful in gaining employment and applying for assistance if necessary. Then there are the burdens on state and local governments: schools, hospitals, city services, etc.
It's an interesting question and you would assume if the case could be made that illegals don't represent a net drain on governments and the economy, that somebody would have made that case. Maybe not.

The social security question really fascinates me.

I have a friend who is an attorney. Part of his practice is assisting companies and organizations legally bring foreigners over to teach, work as doctors, etc..., so he has a pretty solid understanding of immigration laws.

A number of years ago, when he and I were first speaking of this, he told me that a lot of the false ssn's presented by illegal immigrants to employers were from dead people. The numbers were acquired in some fashion, and then sold to these immigrants, or traded around.

Presumably the employers were doing ss withholding from every paycheck and sending it in to the government, with no downside for the government. The dead guy wasn't going to collect any benefits, although it's possible his surviving widow or family members benefited in some fashion.

I just found that interesting. Dan (my friend) said that at a conference one time the speaker stated that if you subtracted out all the "free" money contributed by those who would never be eligible for benefits due to their illegal status, social security would be in even greater jeopardy than it already is. Clearly anecdotal, and with no supporting facts, but it has always had me wondering.

Dan also told me about a fellow he represented who was here illegally, using the name and ssn of another person who owed child support. The state was garnishing his wages to pay the support of kid that wasn't even his, but belonged to the guy whose identity he had stolen. Now that I find kind of funny.

 

[Old Pio]

Yes, lets pass a draconian law in response to one single evil man and not pass any laws after numerous mass shootings. Makes perfect sense to me.

And here's a nice article backing up my position.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/whats-wrong-with-a-20-week-abortion-ban/

I'm not supporting the Texas law. I think legislatures are about the last place I want medical matters debated (the Terry Schiavo case comes to mind). Generally speaking, I view abortion as a medical procedure. Those who wish to undergo the procedure, however, should have whatever reasonable assurances the state can provide that they will be provided with care that meets all relevant standards. I have no idea how many Kermit Gosnells are out there. One is plenty for me. You, however, are scared sh*tless that there's a whole bunch more, which might jeopardize your "abortion uber alles" world view. You seem to be arguing that if some poor black women die as a result of another abortion butcher, well, they're just collateral damage. In service to a greater good.

As to shootings. There have been over 1,000 in Chicago in just the first six months of the year. 67 over the July 4th weekend, 8 in just one incident. Do you seriously believe that some federal law restricting a made up category of weapons that are almost never used in these shootings (because they can't be concealed) and restrictions on magazine capacity will have any measurable impact on the urban slaughter?

I am arguing not in favor of the Texas law but against your fanatical opposition to any change or adjustment in abortion laws. Next thing you know you'll be ranting about coat hangers.

 

[Old Pio]

The social security question really fascinates me.

I have a friend who is an attorney. Part of his practice is assisting companies and organizations legally bring foreigners over to teach, work as doctors, etc..., so he has a pretty solid understanding of immigration laws.

A number of years ago, when he and I were first speaking of this, he told me that a lot of the false ssn's presented by illegal immigrants to employers were from dead people. The numbers were acquired in some fashion, and then sold to these immigrants, or traded around.

Presumably the employers were doing ss withholding from every paycheck and sending it in to the government, with no downside for the government. The dead guy wasn't going to collect any benefits, although it's possible his surviving widow or family members benefited in some fashion.

I just found that interesting. Dan (my friend) said that at a conference one time the speaker stated that if you subtracted out all the "free" money contributed by those who would never be eligible for benefits due to their illegal status, social security would be in even greater jeopardy than it already is. Clearly anecdotal, and with no supporting facts, but it has always had me wondering.

Dan also told me about a fellow he represented who was here illegally, using the name and ssn of another person who owed child support. The state was garnishing his wages to pay the support of kid that wasn't even his, but belonged to the guy whose identity he had stolen. Now that I find kind of funny.

Yeah it is funny. You highlight just one scam out of hundreds that benefit bad guys at the expense of good guys. Not all or even most of them are carried out by or for illegals. I'd imagine we'd all be surprised at the amount of money thrown down rat holes. We read from time to time about people who are collecting the SS payments for dead parents and spouses. And in some cases we read that the cadavers of the dearly departed are right there in the living room, watching reruns of Honey Boo Boo. Given the size and scope of the various entitlement programs, this stuff is inevitable. And the cost of eliminating all of it (assuming that's possible) would probably far exceed the money saved.

I just know that in Phoenix, LA, Houston and many other cities I can get a complete set of phony ID: green card, SS card, drivers license for a couple of hundred bucks. And while I wait. Although philosophically I'm not comfortable with the concept of a national ID card, we may be heading in that direction.

In the 80's, when I worked in Houston, every flea market would have a guy selling IDs that looked like a Texas drivers license. And the prices were scaled according to how authentic they looked. The most expensive ones looked the closest to the real deal. I could never understand why these guys weren't shut down. And assumed the primary customers were thirsty college kids. But if you're selling knock off drivers licenses, which can pass inspection by all but the sharpest person. Then what's to stop you from branching out and providing other documents? It's not like the market isn't there.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Although philosophically I'm not comfortable with the concept of a national ID card, we may be heading in that direction.

It will be a chip implanted in our bodies. It will also feed biometric data back to your employer and insurer, making sure you're living the lifestyle they want you to live . Don't laugh, I was having lunch with my employer's CFO last month, and he brought up the idea as a possible future solution to the rising costs of insurance.

 

[pirate]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Yeah it is funny. You highlight just one scam out of hundreds that benefit bad guys at the expense of good guys. Not all or even most of them are carried out by or for illegals. I'd imagine we'd all be surprised at the amount of money thrown down rat holes. We read from time to time about people who are collecting the SS payments for dead parents and spouses. And in some cases we read that the cadavers of the dearly departed are right there in the living room, watching reruns of Honey Boo Boo. Given the size and scope of the various entitlement programs, this stuff is inevitable. And the cost of eliminating all of it (assuming that's possible) would probably far exceed the money saved.

I just know that in Phoenix, LA, Houston and many other cities I can get a complete set of phony ID: green card, SS card, drivers license for a couple of hundred bucks. And while I wait. Although philosophically I'm not comfortable with the concept of a national ID card, we may be heading in that direction.

In the 80's, when I worked in Houston, every flea market would have a guy selling IDs that looked like a Texas drivers license. And the prices were scaled according to how authentic they looked. The most expensive ones looked the closest to the real deal. I could never understand why these guys weren't shut down. And assumed the primary customers were thirsty college kids. But if you're selling knock off drivers licenses, which can pass inspection by all but the sharpest person. Then what's to stop you from branching out and providing other documents? It's not like the market isn't there.

I don't agree that the cost to prevent it would be too great. The length of time these scams run, and the resultant dollars involved, would likely make it worthwhile. Medicare has $60B in fraud every year.

Not aware of the government ever posting the % of fraud, in dollars and occurrences, but the metric compare it to other entities that deal with fraud...other healthcare, retail, banking etc. all have fraud and all spend money to prevent fraud.

I don't know how much Amazon, Ebay, Citi, BlueCross or Walgreens spend on preventing fraud but I know fraud comes right off the bottom line and therefore is usually worth preventing.

 

[pirate]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

It will be a chip implanted in our bodies. It will also feed biometric data back to your employer and insurer, making sure you're living the lifestyle they want you to live . Don't laugh, I was having lunch with my employer's CFO last month, and he brought up the idea as a possible future solution to the rising costs of insurance.

But it won't be sold to the public as tracking you for those purposes...it will be sold as tracking lost children or the elderly or stranded motorists...people put chips in their dogs for this reason now (not that dogs are often stranded motorists).

The nanny state factor will have 'smart' people do these things willingly. The reason people will go along with the use for insurance eventually will be the same reason they do a lot of things...money. There is no way a smoker contributes enough dollars to insurance to pay for an extended lung cancer battle or lung transplant etc. Many companies are already tiering rates for smokers and telling people they can be fired if they lie. So, people (not 100%) will agree to this type of thing to keep their insurance rates low or to keep their children safe...and then the "fun with data" begins.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

It will be a chip implanted in our bodies. It will also feed biometric data back to your employer and insurer, making sure you're living the lifestyle they want you to live . Don't laugh, I was having lunch with my employer's CFO last month, and he brought up the idea as a possible future solution to the rising costs of insurance.

Everything else from that movie is happening; I wouldn't be surprised.

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