2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

[Craig P.]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

An interesting article on what money does and doesn't buy in Washington and how it's really used to influence legislation.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/arc...-politics-its-not-all-money/?pagination=false

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I don't usually post in this domain, but I needed to get something on my chest.

I was on my Facebook late last night and I saw an article posted by one of my Conservative friends. The sentence above the link said "Impeach and Hang the bleeper" (replacing the f word) in regards to the President. The guy is a normal and seemingly rational guy, but has so much hate and bile built up or the prez. I'm just shocked is all.

I freely admit that I'm a Democrat (towards the center overall. Liberal on social issues, middle on economic and wanting to bring the hammer of murderers, sex offenders and such.) I wouldn't wish death on a guy I didn't vote for. That's reserved for guys like Pol Pot, the Kims of North Korea and other assorted a-holes. I usually don't argue politics because a wise old man told me it's a quick way to lose friends.

I understand the guy's right to be upset, but wow. What happened to being civil and trying to slog through this mess together? I thought we were in this thing together. Just wanted to add my two cents.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I don't usually post in this domain, but I needed to get something on my chest.

I was on my Facebook late last night and I saw an article posted by one of my Conservative friends. The sentence above the link said "Impeach and Hang the bleeper" (replacing the f word) in regards to the President. The guy is a normal and seemingly rational guy, but has so much hate and bile built up or the prez. I'm just shocked is all.

I freely admit that I'm a Democrat (towards the center overall. Liberal on social issues, middle on economic and wanting to bring the hammer of murderers, sex offenders and such.) I wouldn't wish death on a guy I didn't vote for. That's reserved for guys like Pol Pot, the Kims of North Korea and other assorted a-holes. I usually don't argue politics because a wise old man told me it's a quick way to lose friends.

I understand the guy's right to be upset, but wow. What happened to being civil and trying to slog through this mess together? I thought we were in this thing together. Just wanted to add my two cents.

It went south, so to speak, in the 90's. Slick Willie got impeached for being a immoral weasel and a liar, which are not impeachable offenses. Once that happened, the public square became "No more Mr. Nice Guy."

The Democratic reaction to Bush 43 was similar.

Or maybe it started with the confirmation hearings for Judge Bork? Whenever it started, the politics of disagreement has become foam flecked spittle instead of reasoned debate. This forum is a case in point, unfortunately.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

It went south, so to speak, in the 90's. Slick Willie got impeached for being a immoral weasel and a liar, which are not impeachable offenses. Once that happened, the public square became "No more Mr. Nice Guy."

The Democratic reaction to Bush 43 was similar.

Or maybe it started with the confirmation hearings for Judge Bork? Whenever it started, the politics of disagreement has become foam flecked spittle instead of reasoned debate. This forum is a case in point, unfortunately.

On the nose. We should all try harder to be civil. And yes, I'm including myself.

 

[cF[Authentic]]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

On the nose. We should all try harder to be civil. And yes, I'm including myself.

This is why I stopped pursuing my political science major in college. I got tired of every debate turning into a yelling match. We have different views, that's expected. Screaming our heads off about it won't get things changed. It's very similar in this thread. I like to scroll through and keep up to date on some of the postings in here, but it's the same 8 people spouting the same crap over and over.

 

[Rover]

It went south, so to speak, in the 90's. Slick Willie got impeached for being a immoral weasel and a liar, which are not impeachable offenses. Once that happened, the public square became "No more Mr. Nice Guy."

The Democratic reaction to Bush 43 was similar.

Or maybe it started with the confirmation hearings for Judge Bork? Whenever it started, the politics of disagreement has become foam flecked spittle instead of reasoned debate. This forum is a case in point, unfortunately.

It started with the "Southern strategy" of Richard Nixon, an ultimately effective move politically but a horrible legacy to leave amongst his many horrible legacies.

Listen to right wing talk radio nowadays, as I do purely for my own amusement, and you'll hear to continuing themes. 1) Our freedoms are under attack, and 2) The way of life you've always known is changing. Any story gets fit into one or two of these themes, even if they at times are mutually exclusive (gay marriage for example, which would seem to be an exercise in granting people freedom but instead is an ominous change to your way of life).

Now, liberals are whiny themselves, don't get me wrong. But there's different levels of whiny. Some fellow lib get a little whiny at times as they always think the GOP had some brilliant secret plan to steal elections. Daily Kos is a lot like this, but they will also celebrate victories.

I catch the Mark Levin show sometimes and I can't think of a positive thing the guy has ever had to say. You can view sitting GOP congresspeople the same way (Steve King, Michelle Bachmann, etc). Wouldn't you think somebody would hold a press conference and take credit for a reducing deficit? I've yet to see that happen.

So, posters out here can revert back to the same old tired "oh both sides do it" mantra. A true but intellectually lazy statement. Simply put one side, conservatism, has morphed from Morning In America optimism to black helicopter conspiracy theories. Its odd because over 20 years ago I first came across Rush Limbaugh on TV as he had a show on the local Fox affiliate maybe on weekends before the 1992 election. The guy was reasonably amusing without being a raging lunatic. One has to wonder if he's changed himself, or if he's changed to fit his audience? I'm guessing the second one.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I don't usually post in this domain, but I needed to get something on my chest.

I was on my Facebook late last night and I saw an article posted by one of my Conservative friends. The sentence above the link said "Impeach and Hang the bleeper" (replacing the f word) in regards to the President. The guy is a normal and seemingly rational guy, but has so much hate and bile built up or the prez. I'm just shocked is all.

I freely admit that I'm a Democrat (towards the center overall. Liberal on social issues, middle on economic and wanting to bring the hammer of murderers, sex offenders and such.) I wouldn't wish death on a guy I didn't vote for. That's reserved for guys like Pol Pot, the Kims of North Korea and other assorted a-holes. I usually don't argue politics because a wise old man told me it's a quick way to lose friends.

I understand the guy's right to be upset, but wow. What happened to being civil and trying to slog through this mess together? I thought we were in this thing together. Just wanted to add my two cents.

Perhaps you don't remember the millions of "Impeach Bush" posts, including several Facebook groups? Since a loony is in power we have to be civil, but once a knuck gets in power, that can all go out the window. I don't recall if there were any death wishes, but I wouldn't be surprised to read them. Regarding the whole hanging part, many of the religious types are probably still bent up on old Roman ways where you eternally silence the dissent.

 

[Rover]

Perhaps you don't remember the millions of "Impeach Bush" posts, including several Facebook groups? Since a loony is in power we have to be civil, but once a knuck gets in power, that can all go out the window. I don't recall if there were any death wishes, but I wouldn't be surprised to read them. Regarding the whole hanging part, many of the religious types are probably still bent up on old Roman ways where you eternally silence the dissent.

Sooo....doctoring intelligence reports to launch a war on false pretenses that kills 5000 Americans and costs 1T dollars = no impeachment. Banging overweight interns = High crimes and misdemeanors? Oooookaaayyy.

Who cares what internet people are saying? Its the actions that concern me, and conservatives' record in that regard has been abysmal.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Perhaps you don't remember the millions of "Impeach Bush" posts, including several Facebook groups? Since a loony is in power we have to be civil, but once a knuck gets in power, that can all go out the window. I don't recall if there were any death wishes, but I wouldn't be surprised to read them. Regarding the whole hanging part, many of the religious types are probably still bent up on old Roman ways where you eternally silence the dissent.

We only impeach Presidents for sexual liaisons, not going to war under false pretenses. If Obama is ever found to be cheating (highly doubtful) then the impeachment proceedings will start.

 

[joecct]

We only impeach Presidents for sexual liaisons, not going to war under false pretenses. If Obama is ever found to be cheating (highly doubtful) then the impeachment proceedings will start.

If he had not quit, Nixon would have been impeached for abuse of power. Johnson 17 was impeached and acquitted (thank you Sen. Ross) for telling Congress to go self impregnate.

Slick Willy should never have gotten impeached. But he raised adultery to an acceptable level because he was a likeable fellow. Politically we excused morally abhorrent behaviour by the most public of public figures. For that we all should shun him.

Hillary should have served him divorce papers at 12:15 pm on 1/20/01.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Also, there were tons of conservatives that swore Obama was not American, Muslim or communist (the latter was heard on this website) before he entered office. Bush may have been distrusted at the outset but it was only that he pushed us into Iraq after 9/11 that relations deteriorated to anywhere near that level.

 

[Rover]

If he had not quit, Nixon would have been impeached for abuse of power. Johnson 17 was impeached and acquitted (thank you Sen. Ross) for telling Congress to go self impregnate.

Slick Willy should never have gotten impeached. But he raised adultery to an acceptable level because he was a likeable fellow. Politically we excused morally abhorrent behaviour by the most public of public figures. For that we all should shun him.

Hillary should have served him divorce papers at 12:15 pm on 1/20/01.

We'd all prefer to have a moral and a competent President. However, if forced to choose between strong personal morality and a competent leader, for this position I'll choose the competent leader. Carter and Bush II (and Bush I for that matter) projected strong God fearin' morality in their everyday lives...and they ranged from semi-bad (Bush I) to bad (Carter) to worst President of all time (Bush II). Not saying there's a connection, but a strong faith in a higher power doesn't equal being able to run the country effectively. For the stellar job Clinton did in office, he can get hummers from overweight interns all day for all I give a $%^&. Its been proven via DNA that Thomas Jefferson banged a slave. Should we shun his contributions to the country too?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Sooo....doctoring intelligence reports to launch a war on false pretenses that kills 5000 Americans and costs 1T dollars = no impeachment. Banging overweight interns = High crimes and misdemeanors? Oooookaaayyy.

Who cares what internet people are saying? Its the actions that concern me, and conservatives' record in that regard has been abysmal.

Read the post again. Where did I say anything about Clinton's impeachment?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

We'd all prefer to have a moral and a competent President. However, if forced to choose between strong personal morality and a competent leader, for this position I'll choose the competent leader. Carter and Bush II (and Bush I for that matter) projected strong God fearin' morality in their everyday lives...and they ranged from semi-bad (Bush I) to bad (Carter) to worst President of all time (Bush II). Not saying there's a connection, but a strong faith in a higher power doesn't equal being able to run the country effectively. For the stellar job Clinton did in office, he can get hummers from overweight interns all day for all I give a $%^&. Its been proven via DNA that Thomas Jefferson banged a slave. Should we shun his contributions to the country too?

For the hand dealt (when's the last time before Dubya that we had to deal with a foreign invasion? FDR? And then we just go after Germany instead of those that attacked us? Perhaps Truman is the one we really should be praising because he turned attention back to Japan?), Bush II didn't do too badly. Regarding finishing daddy's war, remember that we had been going after Iraq ALL throughout the 90's, from Desert Storm to Desert Thunder. I'm sure there would have been more support if Clinton was the one to finish the job.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

For the hand dealt (when's the last time before Dubya that we had to deal with a foreign invasion? FDR? And then we just go after Germany instead of those that attacked us? Perhaps Truman is the one we really should be praising because he turned attention back to Japan?), Bush II didn't do too badly. Regarding finishing daddy's war, remember that we had been going after Iraq ALL throughout the 90's, from Desert Storm to Desert Thunder. I'm sure there would have been more support if Clinton was the one to finish the job.

Foreign Invasion?

 

[unofan]

Foreign Invasion?

He thinks red dawn is a documentary.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Foreign Invasion?

Invasion of the USA (whether state or territory) by foreigners.

 

[Rover]

For the hand dealt (when's the last time before Dubya that we had to deal with a foreign invasion? FDR? And then we just go after Germany instead of those that attacked us? Perhaps Truman is the one we really should be praising because he turned attention back to Japan?), Bush II didn't do too badly. Regarding finishing daddy's war, remember that we had been going after Iraq ALL throughout the 90's, from Desert Storm to Desert Thunder. I'm sure there would have been more support if Clinton was the one to finish the job.

Hey you just go on believing that one! Goes to prove my point. Righties not only haven't distanced themselves from GWB, they're secretly praying for his image to get rehabilitated in the public's mind. Its sad and funny at the same time. Amazing given the massive deficits, expanded govt power and govt bailouts of private industry that occured during his tenure. But, if I can quote you, "he didn't do too badly".

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Foreign Invasion?

Forget it, he's rolling.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

On the nose. We should all try harder to be civil. And yes, I'm including myself.

This is why I stopped pursuing my political science major in college. I got tired of every debate turning into a yelling match. We have different views, that's expected. Screaming our heads off about it won't get things changed. It's very similar in this thread. I like to scroll through and keep up to date on some of the postings in here, but it's the same 8 people spouting the same crap over and over.

A worthy effort, but you see what happens when you extend an olive branch around here. Exactly what you predicted from the usual suspects.