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2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

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Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Rover said:
I don't think Congress, any Congress that is, should hold hearing on a pending criminal investigation unless they're investigating themselves. I'm sure I'm part of the feeding frenzy sometimes too, but its just too unproductive. If Issa and his committee wants to fish around Benghazi that's fine as there's no criminal investigation of the CIA or State Dept. Doesn't mean I don't think he's an idiot, but that's within their power to do so. If there's a final determination that the AP/etc searches were legally obtained, and then Congress wants to look into the reasonableness of the law, again that's within their rights. But this IRS thing they need to leave alone, as hard as it may be, until the real investigators are done doing their work. Its not like some of these showboaters can't just do the Sunday talk show circuit if they're that desperate for attention.
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Actually, that is the process for impeachment, which is the only way you can criminally investigate a public official according to the Constitution.
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
Actually, that is the process for impeachment, which is the only way you can criminally investigate a public official according to the Constitution.
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I was always under the assumption that Congress can govern themselves. What I mean by that is if you can remember back to the Bob Packwood explusion he wasn't necessarily charged with a criminal matter I don't believe, but he pretty much unanimously was about to get bounced when he decided to resign instead.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Old Pio said:
It's a she. She is a high ranking official of the IRS. And congress has a constitutional obligation to provide oversight. Tax matters originate in the Ways and Means committee. She should answer the questions or resign. She has no constitutional guarantee of federal employment. She's not a Chicago hood trying to evade responsibility for mob killings. If she ultimately faces criminal charges for her actions, then she can plead the fifth 'till the cows come home. We pay her salary. She works for us. And we have a right to know about the skullduggery in her department. Answering the questions might even make a subsequent criminal prosecution more difficult or even impossible. Give her immunity. I don't care. Answer the questions or get out. If she wants to act like "Momo" Giancanna, let her do it on her own nickel.
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FlagDUDE08 said:
OK, she. Is she an American? Yes, she is. She has every right to not incriminate herself. People do bad things every day, but she still is protected by the Constitution. You don't selectively say people get certain rights and other people don't.
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Got to agree with FD on this one. I expect anybody with half a brain to plead the fifth when what they say could possibly be used to prosecute them criminally. Given folks are out for a pound of flesh, she has to expect that somebody will be looking to charge her with something, and is smart to listen to her lawyers, who I am sure are screaming at her to keep her mouth shut.

Also, public employees have a right not to incriminate themselves. See Garrity v. New Jersey, where the Supremes held that telling a public employee they can either resign or incriminate themself makes anything the employee provides a coerced statement which cannot not be used against them in a criminal proceeding.
 
DisplacedCornellian said:
Got to agree with FD on this one. I expect anybody with half a brain to plead the fifth when what they say could possibly be used to prosecute them criminally. Given folks are out for a pound of flesh, she has to expect that somebody will be looking to charge her with something, and is smart to listen to her lawyers, who I am sure are screaming at her to keep her mouth shut.

Also, public employees have a right not to incriminate themselves. See Garrity v. New Jersey, where the Supremes held that telling a public employee they can either resign or incriminate themself makes anything the employee provides a coerced statement which cannot not be used against them in a criminal proceeding.
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OP doesn't understand that if she doesn't take the fifth now, anything she says can be used against her later on. It would therefore be pointless to take the fifth at a later time if she already incriminated herself.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

brookyone said:
http://soundcloud.com/rightwingwatch/bachmann-dobson
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<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/F9S7yhD5M9A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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She talks like it was a monumental vote the House took. They have voted 37 times to repeal Obamacare. What on earth makes her think this time it'll receive anything other than the customary eyeroll from the Senate?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

unofan said:
OP doesn't understand that if she doesn't take the fifth now, anything she says can be used against her later on. It would therefore be pointless to take the fifth at a later time if she already incriminated herself.
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That's not what I said. Nor what I meant. Losing a winnable prosecution by immunizing her will, perhaps, lead us up the food chain and reach all the way into the WH. That's a better outcome than sending one "rogue" bureaucrat to prison. Where's Little Dick on this one? Is it okay with him for high ranking IRS officials to plead the fifth in a congressional investigation and still keep their jobs?
 
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Old Pio said:
That's not what I said. Nor what I meant. Losing a winnable prosecution by immunizing her will, perhaps, lead us up the food chain and reach all the way into the WH. That's a better outcome than sending one "rogue" bureaucrat to prison. Where's Little Dick on this one? Is it okay with him for high ranking IRS officials to plead the fifth in a congressional investigation and still keep their jobs?
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You just go on believing that slappy! I'm suuuuureee this will get back to the Prez. Just like those "unskewed polls" were going to be proven right on election day. BTW, I thought we had a deal where you'd post a picture of the look on your face when the race got called. I'm thinking something timestamped around 11:20 on election night ought to do, unless you pulled a Karl Rove nutty and took an extra hour for reality to set in. :D
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Rover said:
You just go on believing that slappy! I'm suuuuureee this will get back to the Prez. Just like those "unskewed polls" were going to be proven right on election day. BTW, I thought we had a deal where you'd post a picture of the look on your face when the race got called. I'm thinking something timestamped around 11:20 on election night ought to do, unless you pulled a Karl Rove nutty and took an extra hour for reality to set in. :D
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Time will tell.

A third rate burglary got all the way to the WH. But that was with a despised president by the media. This president is (currently) beloved.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Headline writers around the world rejoice: Anthony Weiner's in the race to be NYC mayor. It's the jubilee.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Old Pio said:
Headline writers around the world rejoice: Anthony Weiner's in the race to be NYC mayor. It's the jubilee.
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Could he be any worse than Bloomberg? Time will tell. Perhaps he'll be so busy trying to be Clinton Jr., he'll forget that he's supposed to be New York's nanny. ;)
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Could he be any worse than Bloomberg? Time will tell. Perhaps he'll be so busy trying to be Clinton Jr., he'll forget that he's supposed to be New York's nanny. ;)
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Time will tell. But headline writers will have a field day, sticking it to Weiner. He'll have to work hard, rise to the occasion and stick it out. Because they're gonna be cracking wise at his expense. No need to probe. And this is the big time. No exhibition season. I'm sure his support will swell. Whew, I'm out of breath.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Could he be any worse than Bloomberg? Time will tell. Perhaps he'll be so busy trying to be Clinton Jr., he'll forget that he's supposed to be New York's nanny. ;)
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I expect to hear absolutely nothing about his past indiscretions from the right, seeing as how they're fine with the adulterous misuser of taxpayer money in South Carolina.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

unofan said:
I expect to hear absolutely nothing about his past indiscretions from the right, seeing as how they're fine with the adulterous misuser of taxpayer money in South Carolina.
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Did you mean to say Arkansas?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Old Pio said:
Where's Little Dick on this one? Is it okay with him for high ranking IRS officials to plead the fifth in a congressional investigation and still keep their jobs?
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The Supreme Court says it has to be okay with him. That's the holding of Garrity - the government can't fire somebody for pleading the fifth (that equates to compelling them to incriminate themselves...which violates said fifth). If the government tells an employee to (a) speak or (b) be fired, then anything that is said CANNOT be used to prosecute.
 
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