2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Cleveland had to deal with allegations that he fathered a child with a woman not his wife.

John McCain knows his pain.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Where have I said the behavior is acceptable? I'm saying demonizing gays publicly while actually being gay is hypocritical. Preaching about family values while you're having an affair is hypocritical. Denying that it's hypocritical is quite comical.

Anthony Weiner resigned because he took a picture of his (clothed) dick. Mark Sanford just got elected to Congress despite using state funds to have an affair with a South American woman. Family values!

So in Pricelessland saying "I disapprove of hypocrisy" is actually code for "I approve of hypocrisy?" Got it. "No doubt about it, Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore."

I think we need a blue ribbon Warren Commission like investigation into this problem. Let's find whatever Kennedy has served his time for wife beating, philandering, drunk driving, drug possession, young woman drowning, baby sitter raping and carnal knowledge of East German spies (assuming we can find one) and appoint him chairman.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

So in Pricelessland saying "I disapprove of hypocrisy" is actually code for "I approve of hypocrisy?" Got it. "No doubt about it, Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore."

Yes, I was quoting you. I was not addressing you. There are others who are reading this thread and aren't nearly as enlightened as you are.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

because you agree with those in charge politically, what would you be saying about the Bush administration if Benghazi happen on their watch? Priceless where is the chart on deaths of US Ambassadors? Despite attacks, none of them have been killed since I believe 1979. That is a pretty big deal and despite what all of you might think, that would have sunk Condoleeza Rice.

So only deaths of the ambassador is worth being upset over? The 60 people who died in embassy attacks in the 2000's - which resulted in 0 Congressional investigations - are irrelevant? It's only the ambassador that counts?

Interesting.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Remember a personal attempt to remain neutral and striking a middle may not square against the facts

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/05/0...nghazi-whistleblower-hearing/?singlepage=true

Remember, here, there are choices that were made to directly lie, to go after some unrelated lout with vigor (Nakoua), and to straight out intimidate witnesses. Squaring this against the political need to avoid blame in order not to give republicans a vector of attack is inexcusable and its why these upper echelon people will allowed to operate in such a decietful manner.

Why did they need it to be this way? What were the machinations here? All are relevant and all important to evaluate the proper fitness of those in power to remain in power.

The compelling thing here is for more information. It's only partisan because one side has decided to build a massive wall around the whole deal, and the more information comes out the further the wall crumbles and the need for a new wall begins.

This isn't business as usual.

Edit: this wouldn't be a problem for Obama if very high ranking persons and the president himself did not feel a need just to lie to the American people but the world at large. That was a conscious decision and a provable one.

Doesn't it bother you that they are still so cynical to think they can do this?

"Hey, fellers, let's all head down to the US consulate to complain about a Youtube video we've never heard of, let alone seen. And don't forget to bring your heavy weapons." The American people have very short memories for these things, and it's doubtful they'll hold Hillary accountable for her serial lying about this incident in 2016. Even so, standing before the caskets of the Benghazi dead, claiming they were killed by angry Islamic film reviewers, when she absolutely knew that wasn't the case, is an unprecedented low (even for someone who for years claimed she was named for Sir Edmund Hillary--before he climbed Everest).

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

This "current state of politics" has been going on for over 210 years. The Adams / Jefferson race in 1800 was much rougher than anything we've seen lately. Tip O'Neil said far worse things against Reagan than McConnell ever said about Obama. Gingrich was a far more formidable opponent for Clinton than Boehner is for Obama. Cleveland had to deal with allegations that he fathered a child with a woman not his wife. We've had some pretty rough stuff for a long time.

Most losing sides engage in extreme chest-thumping rhetoric to bolster their morale after a loss. Mature seasoned politicians know this. Leaders know this and don't let it distract them.

The only thing new is that the Obama team took it personally, and behaved as if the things said in the aftermath of '08 and '12 were the very first time those things ever were said in history. It merely demonstrates their inexperience and immaturity and Obama's lack of leadership skills. They actually believed that the other side meant it! and then shrugged their shoulders and said "we can't deal with these people."

Funny how Clinton could deal with Gingrich though.

True, but there's two issues with this. One, you'd expect information to be more accurate and pervasive in the Internet age. Yes, I've heard the phrase 'don't believe everything you read on the net'. But with multiple sources and fact checking, there is much better policing and less monopollization of information. Two, I know that many don't believe this is a good thing...but we've entered a stage of political correctness. Really better said, its a phase of mutual respect. Nonetheless, if joint respect rises in other areas of society...then in theory that should carry over to politics...at least a little.

I guess net story...we should expect better behavior than that of 1820.

 

[Rover]

Ah, yes--hypocrisy, the greatest crime of all. Let's revue the Rover Theorum: Mark Foley, who never had sex with a congressional page but preached family values, is far worse than Gerry Studds who actually cornholed pages but never spoke out against being gay. Got it.

I'm not sure why you like abuse so much, but I'm happy to keep dishing it out!

So, Gerry Studds (mind you, this is something that happened in...you guessed it, the 80's, a decade Opie seems incapable of leaving). I'm guessing his "conquests" were willing partners, while the interns who's dorm Foley tried to raid didn't expect to get back ended while they slepped in their beds. Got any other brilliant insights for me that I can knock out of the park?

Regarding hypocrisy, Priceless is 100% correct. Nobody expects people to lead a perfect life. However, that's different from preaching family values and then picking up men in airport bathrooms (Craig), keeping second families (Fossella), paying for your mistress' abortion (congressman in TN), or using taxpayer money to fly out of country to bang a woman you're cheating on your wife with (Sanford).

So, any USCHO conservative out here, tell us. Do you STILL vote Republican because you think their representatives are more virtuous than the Dems or the population at large?

Regarding Benghazi, this is truly amusing. Hillary Clinton has skyhigh approval ratings and will be the next Prez if she decides to run. Why exactly would you as a dying opposition party practically beg her to make the race with useless and partisan investigations? If there was something there, I'm sure Mittens campaign would have exploited it. What we have is a tragedy that happens from time to time when you are the world's superpower and are stationed all over the globe. The issue has been investigated thoroughly and the questions have been answered. As I said before, who really thinks Ted Cruz is the guy to get to the bottom of this?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

I'm not sure why you like abuse so much, but I'm happy to keep dishing it out!

So, Gerry Studds (mind you, this is something that happened in...you guessed it, the 80's, a decade Opie seems incapable of leaving). I'm guessing his "conquests" were willing partners, while the interns who's dorm Foley tried to raid didn't expect to get back ended while they slepped in their beds. Got any other brilliant insights for me that I can knock out of the park?

Regarding hypocrisy, Priceless is 100% correct. Nobody expects people to lead a perfect life. However, that's different from preaching family values and then picking up men in airport bathrooms (Craig), keeping second families (Fossella), paying for your mistress' abortion (congressman in TN), or using taxpayer money to fly out of country to bang a woman you're cheating on your wife with (Sanford).

So, any USCHO conservative out here, tell us. Do you STILL vote Republican because you think their representatives are more virtuous than the Dems or the population at large?

I never voted for any of the people you mentioned and I've said it a million times, I really don't care about the social issues. I want fiscally conservative people representing me, the problem with today's politicians is that is very hard to find. Despite what they might say, they rarely are fiscally conservative, they all spend money, its just each one spends it on their pet projects instead of trying to stop/slow spending as a whole knowing government always does a bad job of spending money.

 

[pirate]

If all that was going on was what you said in the last paragraph, you'd be right. But fox news, Lindsay Graham, and McCain have staked out their position that this is Obama's Watergate and won't let it go. It was worthwhile talking about it 5 months ago. These days it reeks of desperation with a touch of mccarthyism. Attacking Chuck Hagel because of it was absurd. Throwing in with Ted Cruz is asking to be mocked.

My point is that you (collectively) only see one party doing this. It happens every day, both parties. It is indoctrination, political, religious, whatever...read the stuff on here from a distance and you would see it so clearly.

Summarizing all of "those people" in a convenient stereotype. "Conservatives are grumpy, only liberals are happy"... Really?????

Let me guess, you have a star on your belly.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

My point is that you (collectively) only see one party doing this. It happens every day, both parties. It is indoctrination, political, religious, whatever...read the stuff on here from a distance and you would see it so clearly.

Summarizing all of "those people" in a convenient stereotype. "Conservatives are grumpy, only liberals are happy"... Really?????

Let me guess, you have a star on your belly.

Now we're going to read you being accused of trying to justify this stuff happening because everyone does it. Cue in 5... 4... 3...

It's not any of those things, because they don't call it that.

 

[Rover]

Summarizing all of "those people" in a convenient stereotype. "Conservatives are grumpy, only liberals are happy"... Really?????

GOP = Grumpy Old People

 

[unofan]

My point is that you (collectively) only see one party doing this. It happens every day, both parties. It is indoctrination, political, religious, whatever...read the stuff on here from a distance and you would see it so clearly.

Summarizing all of "those people" in a convenient stereotype. "Conservatives are grumpy, only liberals are happy"... Really?????

Let me guess, you have a star on your belly.

As the saying goes on fark.com "Both sides are bad, so vote republican." That seems to be what you're saying now.

Yes, both sides have their faults. But they are not inherently equally bad at any specific given point in time.

The democrats marginalize their anti-vaxers. The GOP loudly trumpets it's anti-science and anti-education platform. The Dems are the party of tax and spend, which is not ideal. But it's objectively better than the current crop of faux fiscal conservatism in today's GOP, who have policies that rely on completely unrealistic projections like 5% growth every year for 30 years. The Grover pledge is not fiscally conservative, and I have no respect for anyone who claims it is.

Yes, things like the ADA and Clean Air Act are burdensome. But if corporate America didn't screw up so badly in the first place by spewing lead into the air or firing people because they got cancer, we wouldn't need them.

not to sound like Kepler, but I can pinpoint the moment the national GOP lost me. It was when McCain picked Palin as his running mate. He lost my vote at that instant, and nothing I've seen since has made me want to come back to the party. I still have never voted straight ticket in my life, but the current GOP is making it ever harder not to. Hell, of the most conservative posters on here, there's a libertarian sociopath, a grouchy disgruntled old fogey, a bible thumper with no sense of humor, and a Fark Independent (tm) who posts nothing but WSJ editorials and Ny post articles. The main leftist posters on here include a raging smug east coast liberal, a guy on social security disability, and a sarcastic nitwit from up north. Ill take smug and sarcastic over disgruntled and sociopathic any day.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

As the saying goes on fark.com "Both sides are bad, so vote republican." That seems to be what you're saying now.

Yes, both sides have their faults. But they are not inherently equally bad at any specific given point in time.

The democrats marginalize their anti-vaxers. The GOP loudly trumpets it's anti-science and anti-education platform. The Dems are the party of tax and spend, which is not ideal. But it's objectively better than the current crop of faux fiscal conservatism in today's GOP, who have policies that rely on completely unrealistic projections like 5% growth every year for 30 years. The Grover pledge is not fiscally conservative, and I have no respect for anyone who claims it is.

Yes, things like the ADA and Clean Air Act are burdensome. But if corporate America didn't screw up so badly in the first place by spewing lead into the air or firing people because they got cancer, we wouldn't need them.

not to sound like Kepler, but I can pinpoint the moment the national GOP lost me. It was when McCain picked Palin as his running mate. He lost my vote at that instant, and nothing I've seen since has made me want to come back to the party. I still have never voted straight ticket in my life, but the current GOP is making it ever harder not to. Hell, of the most conservative posters on here, there's a libertarian sociopath, a grouchy disgruntled old fogey, a bible thumper with no sense of humor, and a Fark Independent (tm) who posts nothing but WSJ editorials and Ny post articles. The main leftist posters on here include a raging smug east coast liberal, a guy on social security disability, and a sarcastic nitwit from up north. Ill take smug and sarcastic over disgruntled and sociopathic any day.

Oh yeah, because that's what he CLEARLY is telling you what to do. What he's trying to say to is to make the faults of both parties a wash. Base your vote on something else.

I would LOVE to see where your belief of the projection of 5% growth every year for 30 years came from. Perhaps propaganda from one of your "approved news sources"? Tax and spend will not work in the long term, because eventually you run out of other people's money, and you have a crash that would make 1929 look like a simple down day. Do we need to look at taxes? It's possible; I won't rule it out. Let's take a look at cutting spending first, since that's what drastically changed from 06-10. Did revenues change as well? Yes, they did, so that's also something we need to look at.

As for the ADA and Clean Air, I can understand the concept, but they have gone WAY too far and are now single-handedly choking the growth ability of the country. If I wanted an entity of any size to fail, I'd start by hitting them at energy, since that's what you need to even get going.

As for when the GOP lost me, I'd even go back to the nomination of McCain himself. The guy is not fiscally responsible. The GOP has an image that they want to portray and they try to fit their candidates into that mold. That's why I won't vote for them, at least in terms of national elections (not that my vote matters anyway, look where I live). I also love how you're basing your voting habits upon seven posters on a message board. Do you even look at the issues?

 

[Rover]

The main leftist posters on here include a raging smug east coast liberal, a guy on social security disability, and a sarcastic nitwit from up north. Ill take smug and sarcastic over disgruntled and sociopathic any day.

Um, just for the record, which one am I?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Um, just for the record, which one am I?

I was going to ask him the same question...

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Um, just for the record, which one am I?

The grouchy disgruntled old fogey.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Um, just for the record, which one am I?

I'm pretty sure you're the raging smug east coast liberal.

I still have never voted straight ticket in my life, but the current GOP is making it ever harder not to.

Interesting that you mention that, in the 2012 election I intentionally cast a straight ticket* vote for the first time. The last GOP candidate I voted for statewide or national office in a contested election outside of a primary was W for TX governor, but I would usually cast a mixed ballot in local races.


*It wasn't exactly a straight ticket in the common sense of the term, it would be more accurate to say that I disqualified anybody running as GOP from my ballot. I still considered third party candidates, and I didn't cast a vote for anyone that I deemed incompetent, insane, or both, which meant that there were some races where I did not vote.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Um, just for the record, which one am I?

All 3.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

I'm not sure why you like abuse so much, but I'm happy to keep dishing it out!

So, Gerry Studds (mind you, this is something that happened in...you guessed it, the 80's, a decade Opie seems incapable of leaving). I'm guessing his "conquests" were willing partners, while the interns who's dorm Foley tried to raid didn't expect to get back ended while they slepped in their beds. Got any other brilliant insights for me that I can knock out of the park?

Regarding hypocrisy, Priceless is 100% correct. Nobody expects people to lead a perfect life. However, that's different from preaching family values and then picking up men in airport bathrooms (Craig), keeping second families (Fossella), paying for your mistress' abortion (congressman in TN), or using taxpayer money to fly out of country to bang a woman you're cheating on your wife with (Sanford).

So, any USCHO conservative out here, tell us. Do you STILL vote Republican because you think their representatives are more virtuous than the Dems or the population at large?

Regarding Benghazi, this is truly amusing. Hillary Clinton has skyhigh approval ratings and will be the next Prez if she decides to run. Why exactly would you as a dying opposition party practically beg her to make the race with useless and partisan investigations? If there was something there, I'm sure Mittens campaign would have exploited it. What we have is a tragedy that happens from time to time when you are the world's superpower and are stationed all over the globe. The issue has been investigated thoroughly and the questions have been answered. As I said before, who really thinks Ted Cruz is the guy to get to the bottom of this?

Mark Foley never had sex with a congressional page. A detail which obviously means nothing to you.

As to Hillary: "What difference, at this point, does it make?"

I have no insights for you, other than to suggest you learn the proper meaning, usage and spelling of "who's" and "slept," et al. Instead of preening about your brilliance, why not invest a couple of bucks in a copy of "Strunk and White?"

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

As the saying goes on fark.com "Both sides are bad, so vote republican." That seems to be what you're saying now.

Yes, both sides have their faults. But they are not inherently equally bad at any specific given point in time.

The democrats marginalize their anti-vaxers. The GOP loudly trumpets it's anti-science and anti-education platform. The Dems are the party of tax and spend, which is not ideal. But it's objectively better than the current crop of faux fiscal conservatism in today's GOP, who have policies that rely on completely unrealistic projections like 5% growth every year for 30 years. The Grover pledge is not fiscally conservative, and I have no respect for anyone who claims it is.

Yes, things like the ADA and Clean Air Act are burdensome. But if corporate America didn't screw up so badly in the first place by spewing lead into the air or firing people because they got cancer, we wouldn't need them.

not to sound like Kepler, but I can pinpoint the moment the national GOP lost me. It was when McCain picked Palin as his running mate. He lost my vote at that instant, and nothing I've seen since has made me want to come back to the party. I still have never voted straight ticket in my life, but the current GOP is making it ever harder not to. Hell, of the most conservative posters on here, there's a libertarian sociopath, a grouchy disgruntled old fogey, a bible thumper with no sense of humor, and a Fark Independent (tm) who posts nothing but WSJ editorials and Ny post articles. The main leftist posters on here include a raging smug east coast liberal, a guy on social security disability, and a sarcastic nitwit from up north. Ill take smug and sarcastic over disgruntled and sociopathic any day.

Whereas the selection of the "little housewife" Geraldine Ferraro, wife of a mobbed up NYC guy, was a step forward for women. I just threw up in my mouth a little.

It's really a shame none of the posters here meet your high standards.

And it's quite amusing that libtards, who lecture endlessly about the evils of "prejudice" and "stereotypes" regularly engage in both.