2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

[Rover]

Sometimes I forget why I hate the current state of politics in this country. Then I see things like state reps from Arkansas saying they're going to use the Second Amendment to fight Obamacare and other statements like this:

Soooo....you equate an elected representative saying in front of a govt body that he wants to shoot people who disgree with him on a legislative matter to someone posting on an internet message board that they dislike a subset of one of the two major parties? Oooookaaayyyy.....

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

How the heck does PPACA violate the second amendment?! That makes absolutely NO sense. The first amendment I can understand, as I remember reading a case (don't remember specifically which one) where a tax being paid in order to be able to practice one's religion is unconstitutional.

it doesn't. Priceless posted a quote from some dingus effectively saying there was going to be an armed insurrection over Obamacare.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Soooo....you equate an elected representative saying in front of a govt body that he wants to shoot people who disgree with him on a legislative matter to someone posting on an internet message board that they dislike a subset of one of the two major parties? Oooookaaayyyy.....

No, I'm saying both of your comments were idiotic.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

it doesn't. Priceless posted a quote from some dingus effectively saying there was going to be an armed insurrection over Obamacare.

Wouldn't that then strip his position of public office, as it could be considered rebellion against the nation, which by the 14th amendment is a disqualification?

 

[trucker]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Thanks! As someone who thinks conservative Republicanism is a cancer on this country, I fully support their efforts to supress the vote. 1) It never passes legal muster, 2) It's a fools errand as I've yet to hear of an election turning on people who formerly could vote suddenly being denied the ability to when they showed up at the polling station, and 3) It further stereotypes the party as a bunch of aging dinosaurs who only want people who "look like them" voting whether that's a fair assessment or not.

Really, as a Dem I can tell you the only people who actually worry about this stuff costing us are people like Kepler who, bless his soul, tends to think that the GOP always has some dastardly plot in their back pocket to steal elections. If they do they might want to unveil it sometime soon...

You don't think voter suppression in Florida cost Gore the election in 2000?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

You don't think voter suppression in Florida cost Gore the election in 2000?

Oh, so now you admit it exists? That just shows your bias.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Well, did somebody decide to hold a Knuckledragger Convention and nobody told me about it? Yikes.

So, voter ID. In fact some states have strengthened voter ID laws but gave time to implement the changes. Rhode Island comes to mind. The problem occured when states passed laws to take effect a few months before election day or even before the primaries. Pennsylvania comes to mind, where un-American conservative Republicans resorted to Soviet era tactics to prevent legal citizens from voting. How you ask, since according to the not-getting-laid-in-this-decade chorus of USCHO righty posters voter ID's are easy to obtain? Because what constitutes a proper ID has to be gotten at the RMV, and they couldn't handle the volume so close to election day. Sorta fits with the honest but ill timed declaration by the GOP House Speaker who stated this would give the state to Romney come election day.

The funniest part in all of this is that as a strategy for winning elections its doomed to fail. Not only will the courts block a blatant voter suppression effort every time, but all you do is PO the very people you're trying to screw, thus ensuring they come out in droves and not only vote against your candidate, but most likely every other one with an R next to their name on the ballot. Wasn't PA supposed to be a toss up state, while FL was in the bag for Mittens due limiting early voting, polling hours, voter registration, etc, etc ,etc? How did that work out again? One has to think that in addition to the utter bankrupcy and moldiness of conservative ideas, part of the problem was a motivated voter base on the left who was out for a little payback for these illegal electoral shennanigans directed at them and put forth by the GOP. Here's a thought guys, try embracing policies that voters support and maybe you'll win more elections.

There's an election coming up in November of 2014. Strikes me as plenty of time to get an ID, for the "untold zillions" of poor black/latinos who struggle daily against racism, oppression and Republican perfidy.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Sometimes I forget why I hate the current state of politics in this country.

It's easier for people than going out and doing something productive.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

There's an election coming up in November of 2014. Strikes me as plenty of time to get an ID, for the "untold zillions" of poor black/latinos who struggle daily against racism, oppression and Republican perfidy.

Not to mention, why would other forms of identification (DL, passport, military) be unacceptable? If they are accepted, that would cut the "expected lines" ten-fold.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Wouldn't that then strip his position of public office, as it could be considered rebellion against the nation, which by the 14th amendment is a disqualification?

I don't know. He basically put his foot in his mouth using a hydraulic press. I don't think he was serious. Maybe he was. I'm sure you could find it. I think it was around the discussion of the word "nucular".

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Not to mention, why would other forms of identification (DL, passport, military) be unacceptable? If they are accepted, that would cut the "expected lines" ten-fold.

They believe that Americans are so incapable of taking action for themselves that getting an ID of some sort is an unspeakable burden to place on people, even if you give them years to undertake such a Herculean effort.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

That "voter suppression" effort in Florida resulted in a 60% increase in the black vote in 2000. Somebody's entitled to a refund.

Besides, if Mr. "Lockbox" had been able to carry his home state of Tennessee, Florida would have been irrelevant.

 

[Rover]

There's an election coming up in November of 2014. Strikes me as plenty of time to get an ID, for the "untold zillions" of poor black/latinos who struggle daily against racism, oppression and Republican perfidy.

Set the rules now for the upcoming election, not two months beforehand and I'm on board. Again, RI managed to do this so I'm not sure why other states can't unless there's something nefarious going on...

Also, might be Flaggy that chimed in, but the problem with a voter discouragement effort is that they tend to start restricting what counts as an ID. So, the idea is 1) narrow what's considered a valid ID to one thing, 2) pass said law as close to the election date as humanly possible, and 3) hope the time it takes to get this one form of ID knocks enough potential voters off.

Trucker,

Al Gore lost that election because he had one of the stupidest campaign efforts I've ever seen. That coupled with a confusing ballot in one county that had some Gore voters choosing Pat Buchanan cost him the race, but it never should have come down to that frankly. The 2000 election is entirely on him and his team.

No, I'm saying both of your comments were idiotic.

I can respect that. Still a matter of degrees though, as I haven't threatened to give anybody lead poisoning out here.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

They believe that Americans are so incapable of taking action for themselves that getting an ID of some sort is an unspeakable burden to place on people, even if you give them years to undertake such a Herculean effort.

In the runup to last year's election, the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit against the Pennsylvania? ID law wound up getting on a bus, transferring, getting to the DMV, providing whatever proof was required and getting an ID. The dear was in her 90's. Shelby Steele writes about "exceptionalsim," by which he means the dual standards customarily applied to minorities. "Why they can't do that, they're minorities." Talk about racist condescension.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Yep, gotta have an ID to vote. Don't need anything to buy a gun.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

I can respect that. Still a matter of degrees though, as I haven't threatened to give anybody lead poisoning out here.

Don't get me wrong, his comment was way, way worse.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Yep, gotta have an ID to vote. Don't need anything to buy a gun.

As if requiring ID to buy a gun (I have no idea about that, since I don't buy guns) would shut you up on this subject.

 

[Rover]

In the runup to last year's election, the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit against the Pennsylvania? ID law wound up getting on a bus, transferring, getting to the DMV, providing whatever proof was required and getting an ID. The dear was in her 90's. Shelby Steele writes about "exceptionalsim," by which he means the dual standards customarily applied to minorities. "Why they can't do that, they're minorities." Talk about racist condescension.

IIRC the law got overturned or perhaps suspended? for the upcoming election because the DMV could not handle the volume of people needing ID in the weeks before the primaries. So while one lady may have had a good experience, it was clear that many others weren't because taking time off to haul over to the registry, only to deal with a several hours wait, and then having to come back again was getting ridiculous especially since I'm not aware of any widespread voter fraud in PA.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

As if requiring ID to buy a gun (I have no idea about that, since I don't buy guns) would shut you up on this subject.

The way I see it we have two choices. Background checks across the board or none. I'm ok with either. Decide and move on. In this regard I find the two issues linked. If we don't require Background checks for guns then we shouldn't require background checks for votes.

Feel free to disagree as I know you will. That's my stand and I'm sticking with it.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

The way I see it we have two choices. Background checks across the board or none. I'm ok with either. Decide and move on. In this regard I find the two issues linked. If we don't require Background checks for guns then we shouldn't require background checks for votes.

Feel free to disagree as I know you will. That's my stand and I'm sticking with it.

Seems reasonable to me. I'd lean toward a check on both, but at least we'd be consistent doing it for both or neither. There are probably other things we could throw in here that we currently check or don't check for as long as we're trying to be consistent across the board.