What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

JF_Gophers said:
I had a discussion with a relative about Voter ID recently and that is what got me thinking about it.

Their position was, especially in the case of minorities it was another way for republicans to intimidate them and keep them from voting in elections. Also, that the elections were not in general being defrauded by the people, so there was really no need for a further regulation.

My position was, if the ID is free to get and easily attainable to all people, it seems like a pretty low bar to cross in order to vote. Especially if it is simply ensuring age and citizenship. If having an ID is intimidating minorities, it is because of all the things that have happened to them before this, not because of the ID itself.
Click to expand...

The people who are against free voter IDs (and that's the way you have to do it because of the 24th) are claiming that the opportunity cost from waiting in line for the ID is a poll tax.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

FlagDUDE08 said:
The people who are against free voter IDs (and that's the way you have to do it because of the 24th) are claiming that the opportunity cost from waiting in line for the ID is a poll tax.
Click to expand...
Which is silly, since you may have to wait in line to vote anyways. So some people are being "taxed" based on when they go to the polls.

Also, the other argument was how to handle absentee voting, which is becoming more and more popular.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

JF_Gophers said:
My position was, if the ID is free to get and easily attainable to all people, it seems like a pretty low bar to cross in order to vote. Especially if it is simply ensuring age and citizenship. If having an ID is intimidating minorities, it is because of all the things that have happened to them before this, not because of the ID itself.
Click to expand...
Americans are that lazy that they view this as a significant hurdle.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Bob Gray said:
Americans are that lazy that they view this as a significant hurdle.
Click to expand...

And then they try to emotionally justify it that because they want to vote, they can't pay the electricity bill. :rolleyes:

John F. Kennedy's inauguration message has been completely flipped on its head.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Bob Gray said:
Americans are that lazy that they view this as a significant hurdle.
Click to expand...


How difficult is it for you to vote? How long does it take you in a presidential election?

Personally, I walk in, chat with people at the table, get my ballot, mark it and walk out.

Takes me 3 minutes. Every time.


I'm not sure I'd go through what those folks in Florida did.

Logically, what many of you who are pro-ID say makes a lot of sense. It fails the smell test though when basically EVERYWHERE that they are trying these things are areas where GOP state governments are enacting this stuff to try and hold onto or gain power.


Back to my first point, my guess is that for most (not all) of us whities, the voting process is pretty easy and no one is trying to stop us from voting or even slow us down.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Gurtholfin said:
Logically, what many of you who are pro-ID say makes a lot of sense. It fails the smell test though when basically EVERYWHERE that they are trying these things are areas where GOP state governments are enacting this stuff to try and hold onto or gain power.

Back to my first point, my guess is that for most (not all) of us whities, the voting process is pretty easy and no one is trying to stop us from voting or even slow us down.
Click to expand...
While I don't have the breakdown by state, which may make some difference, according to voter stats on various sites only once since 1964 have less than 50% of black people voted in the presidential election.

Considering that Americans in general are only voting at about 60% nowadays, I don't see the intimidations working very well anymore.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

JF_Gophers said:
Which is silly, since you may have to wait in line to vote anyways. So some people are being "taxed" based on when they go to the polls.

Also, the other argument was how to handle absentee voting, which is becoming more and more popular.
Click to expand...

I'm only telling you what I have read. However, I would love to read what the argument is about absentee ballots...
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Riddle me this - Why is this such an important issue across the country all of a sudden?

The demographic studies don't show a promising future for the ideas that the GOP stand behind. So rather than adapt and evolve, let's fix it so we can win without giving up our antiquated ideals.

Therein lies your answer to why many who might otherwise be in favor of voter ID are not.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Gurtholfin said:
Riddle me this - Why is this such an important issue across the country all of a sudden?

The demographic studies don't show a promising future for the ideas that the GOP stand behind. So rather than adapt and evolve, let's fix it so we can win without giving up our antiquated ideals.

Therein lies your answer to why many who might otherwise be in favor of voter ID are not.
Click to expand...
To me the riddle is, how does voter ID "fix it" for them? That's the part I am missing.

How many more seats is the GOP suddenly going to get or in some cases keep, that they wouldn't have otherwise?
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

JF_Gophers said:
While I don't have the breakdown by state, which may make some difference, according to voter stats on various sites only once since 1964 have less than 50% of black people voted in the presidential election.

Considering that Americans in general are only voting at about 60% nowadays, I don't see the intimidations working very well anymore.
Click to expand...


I'm just saying that the motive - which is completely transparent and obvious - is what makes me take great pause when I look at this issue.

I don't see any nefarious motive involved in requiring background checks for all gun sales. To me that makes about the most logical sense in the history of logical sense.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

JF_Gophers said:
To me the riddle is, how does voter ID "fix it" for them? That's the part I am missing.

How many more seats is the GOP suddenly going to get or in some cases keep, that they wouldn't have otherwise?
Click to expand...

I'm just saying that they wouldn't be doing this or spending the capital on it if they didn't believe that it would give them some sort of advantage. Why else would it be worth the time right now as there has never been any proof that it's a major issue.

That is enough for me to be suspicious of it.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

JF_Gophers said:
To me the riddle is, how does voter ID "fix it" for them? That's the part I am missing.

How many more seats is the GOP suddenly going to get or in some cases keep, that they wouldn't have otherwise?
Click to expand...

Because it eliminates those that voted six times for Obama in 2012. And that has been proven.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

I can't see why anyone thinks Republicans are trying for voter ID laws to sway elections.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EuOT1bRYdK8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Seems totally legit to me!
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Gurtholfin said:
I don't see any nefarious motive involved in requiring background checks for all gun sales. To me that makes about the most logical sense in the history of logical sense.
Click to expand...

It's called an opportunity for the second amendment to be violated. If you put background checks into place, the firearm can be denied for any reason. And then the courts, which with the exception of John Roberts have proven that they legislate from the bench based upon political leanings, will come up with some cockamamie justification for the denial. Let's not give them that opportunity.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

FlagDUDE08 said:
It's called an opportunity for the second amendment to be violated. If you put background checks into place, the firearm can be denied for any reason. And then the courts, which with the exception of John Roberts have proven that they legislate from the bench based upon political leanings, will come up with some cockamamie justification for the denial. Let's not give them that opportunity.
Click to expand...

So, there is no chance for people's right to vote to be violated?
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Gurtholfin said:
How difficult is it for you to vote? How long does it take you in a presidential election?

Personally, I walk in, chat with people at the table, get my ballot, mark it and walk out.

Takes me 3 minutes. Every time.


I'm not sure I'd go through what those folks in Florida did.

Logically, what many of you who are pro-ID say makes a lot of sense. It fails the smell test though when basically EVERYWHERE that they are trying these things are areas where GOP state governments are enacting this stuff to try and hold onto or gain power.


Back to my first point, my guess is that for most (not all) of us whities, the voting process is pretty easy and no one is trying to stop us from voting or even slow us down.
Click to expand...
Delays in Florida have nothing to do with a reasonable ID law that is done well before elections and is clearly laid out. Regardless of political views, I think we can all agree that Florida elections have been a mess and should have been cleaned up long ago. I actually vote by mail now, as the last two Presidential elections I voted in person on it took over 2 hours of standing in line to vote. My observation is that the reason it took so long was very mundane. The little old ladies who signed you in and gave you your ballot were really slow. They sit there and dawdle to find you in the book to sign your name and hand you a ballot, and half the voting booths were empty.

There is no reasonable argument against a well laid out voter ID law. If people can't take the minimal steps to have an ID and bring it with them to vote, that's their fault. And if it's done properly, it shouldn't impact voting for either party significantly if people are legitimate voters. That, among other places is where arguments against voter ID fail the smell test.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top