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2024 Pairwise and Tournament Qualification Thread

J.D. said:
I don't understand what this means. You pointed out an example from like 20 years ago. The committee changes every year and precedents can change. Just because they made a decision on something similar 20 years ago has absolutely no bearing on what they might do now. Suddenly this season? Maybe because it's not a scenario we see unfold every season. That's why.
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Yes, there is a new committee every season, but the policies, procedures and rules remain constant. The ones that need to be changed are done in the off-season. They have followed this protocol consistently, whoever has been on the committee. The only time there has been an intra conference opening round game was when there was no other option because one conference had 5 teams in the middle pairing and it was unavoidable.

But it would have been avoidable if they had considered changing a team into another band. The committee didn't do that.

​
 
Hi all, just read thru the thread and do not see this addressed: AIC is a co-host in Springfield, MA with UMA; is there some reason they are not being discussed as needing to be placed in Springfield if they win their tourney? If they do need to be placed in Springfield, what happens if UMA loses on Friday to fall to a 4 seed and AIC wins on Saturday to also be a 4 seed?

Also, a few issues with Connelly’s bracket: 1) overall 1 will play overall 16 bc of yuge discrepancy in CCHA team rankings vs CC/WMU etc; 2) overall 2 will not be protected and play one of the NCHC teams, swapping with overall 3 who will play AHA champ; 3) makes no sense to have 6v9 and 7v10 when 9/10 are from same conference—should be 6v10 and 7v9. So I have it:

Providence: 1 BC, 7 QU, 9 Bucky, 16 Bemidji
Maryland Heights: 4 Denver, 6 Maine, 10 Mich, 13 Western
Springfield: 2 BU, 5 Mich St, 12 UMass, 14 CC
Sioux Falls: 3 Nodak, 8 Minn, 11 Omaha, 15 RIT

Hope everyone is well:)
 
I believe the AIC thing is incorrect. They are not a co-host. Because the only thing that could be dumber here is having multiple hosts for a site when they could finish in the same magical band.
 
J.D. said:
I believe the AIC thing is incorrect. They are not a co-host. Because the only thing that could be dumber here is having multiple hosts for a site when they could finish in the same magical band.
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Upon what information are you basing your assumption that AIC is not a co-host? The NCAA ticket offer emails I receive show AIC as a co-host and if you simply Google “AIC hockey regional host”, there are plenty of articles with quotes from AIC and MassMutual Center bigwigs.
 
Their problem is that it's too much to worry about. Heaven forbid they would have to come up with some sort of creative solution when they could obnubulate with impunity.
 
“MassMutual Center, American International College, and the University of Massachusetts announce the game dates for the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) DI Men’s Ice Hockey Regional. The games will be held on Thursday, March 28, 2024, at 2:00 p.m. and 5:30 p.m., and Saturday, March 30, 2024, at 4:00 p.m. All three games will be televised on ESPNU or ESPNEWS. Teams participating in the tournament will be determined in March.”
 
Seacaptim said:
“MassMutual Center, American International College, and the University of Massachusetts announce the game dates for the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) DI Men’s Ice Hockey Regional. The games will be held on Thursday, March 28, 2024, at 2:00 p.m. and 5:30 p.m., and Saturday, March 30, 2024, at 4:00 p.m. All three games will be televised on ESPNU or ESPNEWS. Teams participating in the tournament will be determined in March.”
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According to a Twitter responder, AIC plays their home games at MassMutual Center and, thus, cannot be placed there. Thanks for help in finding this out:)
 
J.D. said:
Precedents can change. Committee isn't the same every year. Common sense says 12 v. 13 fighting over who the home team is doesn't compare to #1 in the PWR going from playing #31 in the PWR to playing #14 in the PWR. It also simply doesn't make any sense to give the #3 and #4 overall seeds a distinct advantage over #1 and #2. Just because something is the way it is doesn't mean it has to stay that way when there is a better solution. In the scenario being proposed here I think the qualifier would be that it would happen when 12 and 13 are kept in same regional. I am just open to flexibility when it is logical. It doesn't have to be this rigid.
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Right, but the banding isn't a precedent- it's an actual rule in the manual. They can't change that mid-stream without some sort of substantive rule making involving players well beyond the selection committee.
 
AMC said:
Right, but the banding isn't a precedent- it's an actual rule in the manual. They can't change that mid-stream without some sort of substantive rule making involving players well beyond the selection committee.
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Just to reiterate I only brought this up because I heard Adam Wodon say on latest podcast that it is NOT an ironclad rule.
 
Most of what we accept as truth regarding the NCAA tournament actual selection is “unknown”. USCHO, Wodon and others have “observed” the actual brackets and seedings, and formed “opinions” on the criteria used. USCHO predictions have been remarkably accurate over the years, so one can assume we have hit on the main differentials.
 
AMC said:
Right, but the banding isn't a precedent- it's an actual rule in the manual. They can't change that mid-stream without some sort of substantive rule making involving players well beyond the selection committee.
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That isn't true. Banding is a rule - but what teams you put in those bands is not a rule. Nowhere does it say that teams 5-8 in the Pairwise have to be in band 2, etc... Check the manual. It's online somewhere.
 
ScoobyFanClub said:
That isn't true. Banding is a rule - but what teams you put in those bands is not a rule. Nowhere does it say that teams 5-8 in the Pairwise have to be in band 2, etc... Check the manual. It's online somewhere.
Click to expand...

I quoted it below. It in fact does say that:

"Once the six automatic qualifiers and 10 at-large teams are selected, the next step is to develop four groups from the committee’s rankings of 1-16. The top four teams are No. 1 seeds and will be placed in the bracket so that if all four teams advance to the Men’s Frozen Four, the No. 1 seed will play the No. 4 seed and the No. 2 seed will play the No. 3 seed in the semifinals. The next four are targeted as No. 2 seeds. The next four are No. 3 seeds and the last four are No. 4 seeds."

So the order of events are:

1. Select the 16 teams by ranking them from 1-16.
2. "The top four teams are No. 1 seeds"
3. "placed in the bracket so..." (we don't care, not a seeding issue)
4. "The next four are targeted as No. 2 seeds"
5. "The next four are No. 3 seeds"
6. "and the last four are No. 4 seeds"

Unless they want to monkey with the rankings in step one, they can't get to step 4 or 5 or 6 and say "oh boy, we've got a mess, we need to move teams from 2 seeds to 3" or whatever.
 
AMC said:
I quoted it below. It in fact does say that:

"Once the six automatic qualifiers and 10 at-large teams are selected, the next step is to develop four groups from the committee’s rankings of 1-16. The top four teams are No. 1 seeds and will be placed in the bracket so that if all four teams advance to the Men’s Frozen Four, the No. 1 seed will play the No. 4 seed and the No. 2 seed will play the No. 3 seed in the semifinals. The next four are targeted as No. 2 seeds. The next four are No. 3 seeds and the last four are No. 4 seeds."

So the order of events are:

1. Select the 16 teams by ranking them from 1-16.
2. "The top four teams are No. 1 seeds"
3. "placed in the bracket so..." (we don't care, not a seeding issue)
4. "The next four are targeted as No. 2 seeds"
5. "The next four are No. 3 seeds"
6. "and the last four are No. 4 seeds"

Unless they want to monkey with the rankings in step one, they can't get to step 4 or 5 or 6 and say "oh boy, we've got a mess, we need to move teams from 2 seeds to 3" or whatever.
Click to expand...

I believe Step 1 is the point. There are other ways of ranking by criteria that doesn't include how it gets published online.
 
I don't recall the pairwise being this in flux going into the final weekend, especially at the top. The only thing we know for certain is that Boston College will be the overall top seed and play in Providence. We know that Boston University will be #2 and should be the top seed in Springfield, but that remains unclear. And the weird part is the Terriers have absolutely no say in their fate. It isn't as simple as "win your games" because they are locked into #2 and everything will be determined by other teams.

Numbers 3-7 are up in the air. North Dakota, Denver, Michigan State, Maine and Quinnipiac all remain alive for a top regional seed. North Dakota can nail it down tonight with a win. If either or both lose, all hell breaks loose. The Spartans, Black Bears and Bobcats can all finish as high as #3 overall or as low as #7 overall.

The only game that seems certain right now is #8 Minnesota vs Omaha in Sioux Falls. It would take an unusual confluence of events to drop Omaha into the 4th band.

Wisconsin and Michigan are both locked into the third band, which could create problems if Michigan State also remains a two.

As stated above, Omaha is likely a third seed as well and will host in Sioux Falls.

Then a bunch of teams on the bubble that need to either win (St Cloud, Cornell, UMass) or watch nervously from home (Western Michigan, Colorado College) and hope Quinnipiac wins the ECAC.

And then there are Dartmouth, St Lawrence and AIC/RIT & BSU/MTU whose only way in is to win an autobid.

Let the games begin!

(Yes, there are probably scenarios out there that invalidate the above, but this is accurate given almost all likely outcomes)
 
Congrats to St. Lawrence, whose impressive post-season will continue on for at least another day. Good luck.

And,unfortunately, they've ruined some team's national tournament hopes.
 
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