2020 Democratic Challengers

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

No, it's not. The Democrats don't lose because they don't have big ideas. They lose because the other side gets away with lying. And as long as they do there is no fix. The media this go round is more culpable than anyone to the results of the 2016 election.

That article is for people who get a tingle in their loins over ridiculous proposals that the public will never support. Lefty loons always ask "well, how can it get any worse?" It can if the GOP hits 60 votes in the Senate. Try to push some of this total idiocy that the author is spewing about and Goopers will pick up the 8 Senate seats they need in 2018. Sometimes when people are laughing at you Kep, its not because they "don't understand". Its because you're truly doing something stupid.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

They have big ideas such as economic populism that they don't follow through with and then people start to wisen up and stop believing them... sure.

The Democrats, (again, using the term broadly to cover the party of Obama and HRC), tell you about how horrible all of these Republican policies are, but then when they get elected they never do anything about them. Oh, they'll throw you a small bone periodically, but there is a reason why income inequality in this country didn't change under either Clinton or Obama. As I've said here before, I hope I am alive long enough to see the day when some African Americans in this country start talking with one another and someone asks the question, "wait a minute. Exactly what have the Democrats delivered to us in the last 50 years in exchange for our 90% vote?" You want to talk about suckers, to use the phrase popular around here.

I think part of this was the Republicans blocking everything they tried to do but on the whole I don't disagree all that much sadly.

 

[geezer]

Read the whole thing, it's excellent. Rover's reaction is proof of the author's point.

The blogger is exactly right. It seems to me that the only reason for the Dems fearfulness is that Repubs are angrier. That's not a good reason to concede arguments. It's lazy parenting.

 

[geezer]

Trump isn't intellectually anything, unless an intellectual void can be thought of as "conservative."

I know it's not the right word, but I mean that if he could have his hearts desire he'd be a 1730 South Carolina plantation owner. Insofar as he has ideals, they are reactive and classist.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The blogger's take on things is insane. Political parties are made up of the people who support them. Meaning, if Democratic voters really were buying what Bernie and this author was selling, he would have been the nominee. Elizabeth Warren would be far and away the front runner for 2020. The problem hard core lefties have is they're delusional about their actual level of support. Bernie lost because the majority of Dem voters preferred a different vision. One not quite so radical. Dislike that all you want but try to live in reality with the rest of us. There is no vast conspiracy keeping you people down. You need to convince people in the party of the merits of your positions and get people elected without resorting to lunatic conspiracy theories and skipping elections every time you don't get your way.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

I know it's not the right word, but I mean that if he could have his hearts desire he'd be a 1730 South Carolina plantation owner. Insofar as he has ideals, they are reactive and classist.

Yes, that's perfect. He's one of those idiot reactionary landowners in Czarist Russia that put the wind up Chekhov. A blustering buffoon full of himself and his money and empty not just of ideas but even of the capacity for ideas. He is Peak Heir: the quintessence of unearned wealth with nothing else added except appetite and vanity.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The blogger is exactly right. It seems to me that the only reason for the Dems fearfulness is that Repubs are angrier. That's not a good reason to concede arguments. It's lazy parenting.

No, he's not. You can't get it done. Obama was in their 8 years and he essentially got nothing accomplished. Why? The Senate. What the Republicans do to get away with it is they lie about what they're going to do and then blame the Democrats. If you believe the Democrats should start lying, go ahead. But, what invariably happens is Bernie goes out and lies to everyone about what he can get done, and then if he got the nomination they'd destroy him on socialism.

This is a Republican country. You either win by being better Republicans or you get your *** handed to you. The Dems have chosen the latter.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

It's kinda funny to hear people act like single payer/addressing wealth inequality/more leftist ideas are all super crazy when going full centrist resulted in us getting Trump in the White House.

Obama was in their 8 years and he essentially got nothing accomplished. Why? The Senate.

And yet you have no explanation for the period in which he had a dem majority.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

It's kinda funny to hear people act like single payer/addressing wealth inequality/more leftist ideas are all super crazy when going full centrist resulted in us getting Trump in the White House.

Those ideas would have lost the election too.

 

[geezer]

Dislike that all you want but try to live in reality with the rest of us. There is no vast conspiracy keeping you people down. You need to convince people in the party of the merits of your positions and get people elected without resorting to lunatic conspiracy theories and skipping elections every time you don't get your way.

Speak for yourself in your permanent defeatism. We took option B and nominated Bernie. #pureMichigan

 

[geezer]

No, he's not. You can't get it done. Obama was in their 8 years and he essentially got nothing accomplished. Why? The Senate. What the Republicans do to get away with it is they lie about what they're going to do and then blame the Democrats. If you believe the Democrats should start lying, go ahead. But, what invariably happens is Bernie goes out and lies to everyone about what he can get done, and then if he got the nomination they'd destroy him on socialism.

This is a Republican country. You either win by being better Republicans or you get your *** handed to you. The Dems have chosen the latter.

It's a long game. A lot depends on Mayors and Governors that will support an honest census and get rid of gerrymandering. You're right only within 8-10 years but Dems should be prepping for year 11 right now.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Those ideas would have lost the election too.

Doubtful

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The blogger is exactly right. It seems to me that the only reason for the Dems fearfulness is that Repubs are angrier. That's not a good reason to concede arguments. It's lazy parenting.

Watch the apologists come scurrying out now. It's as if they want to exemplify everything the author is saying.

Democrats of my age and older got PTSD from Reagan, and many of them never recovered. They had their balls lopped off and they've spent forty years mewling about, justifying themselves and their full retreat from liberalism. The pundit class has gotten rich telling them what they want to hear. And they still occupy most of the power structure in the DNC and most state parties.

But the young aren't buying any of their sh-t. There really is a revolt boiling up from below against the Clintons and McAuliffes and Kaines and, well, the Rovers. It was OK when they were winning elections but now they're telling everyone to tamp down all their ideals and their hopes... and for that they STILL LOSE! They are applying political lessons from a 1988 landscape to 2018, and they are hopelessly adrift and clueless.

The future of the Democratic party is in a full-on, aggressive, take no prisoners reassertion of leftism, but in language and towards ends that resonate with people born after the Mike Dukakis tank video. The old who are suffocating the left don't just mislead with their cowardice, they also don't realize that the issues that motivated them are as irrelevant as bi-metalism, and their mindset is as dead as Hegelianism. Their. Day. Is. Over.

My advice to the new generations is that those f-cks poisoning the Democratic party are never going to willingly step aside. They're self-absorbed and vain, but they also have great health care and they're gonna live forever. If you want the power, seize it.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Speak for yourself in your permanent defeatism. We took option B and nominated Bernie. #pureMichigan

Yeah, and where exactly did that get us? We're a red-leaning state getting redder because the "under 35 and educated" demo is leaving for much more hip states where a lot of the good jobs are.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Yeah, and where exactly did that get us?

Nowhere because Bernie ran a bad campaign far too late and somehow people think that means everyone rejects his ideas despite all proof otherwise. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ton-combined-by-a-lot/?utm_term=.8a5781bb2c17

 

[Jimjamesak]

But the young aren't buying any of their sh-t. There really is a revolt boiling up from below against the Clintons and McAuliffes and Kaines and, well, the Rovers. It was OK when they were winning elections but now they're telling everyone to tamp down all their ideals and their hopes... and for that they STILL LOSE! They are applying political lessons from a 1988 landscape to 2018, and they are hopelessly adrift and clueless.

The future of the Democratic party is in a full-on, aggressive, take no prisoners reassertion of leftism, but in language and towards ends that resonate with people born after the Mike Dukakis tank video. The old who are suffocating the left don't just mislead with their cowardice, they also don't realize that the issues that motivated them are as irrelevant as bi-metalism, and their mindset is as dead as Hegelianism. Their. Day. Is. Over.

This. A lot of folks 35 and under are tired of the Hilly-con BS and want serious leftist policies. I said it during the primaries and I'll say it again, the Democrats are facing a split in the party.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

This. A lot of folks 35 and under are tired of the Hilly-con BS and want serious leftist policies. I said it during the primaries and I'll say it again, the Democrats are facing a split in the party.

Not a split, an evolution. The young leftists fit the ecological niche better. The old moderates are literally dying off, just not fast enough, so they need a little shove.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The Republican Party tells you exactly what they want to do, and then they either do it or try to do it. They will tell you they are going to cut taxes. They tell you they are going to keep certain races out of the country. They tell you they are going to put up barriers to vote. They leave it up to you to figure out whether all of that is going to be personally good for you.

You've got to be 5hitting me. Look at the last 8 months of the healthcare debate and show me the honesty. They tell you they are going to provide beautiful, affordable healthcare for everyone, they tell you they are going to supercharge the economy creating an abundance of better and higher paying jobs, they tell you they are going to get rid of rampant voter fraud.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

I have a feeling that this vaster-than- normal generational revolution has something to do with the internet. Does a college student today identify more strongly with "his" US political party, or with Chinese, German, Swedish, and Moroccan college students who are exposed to the same information and fighting similar battles? It's time for big ideas like national health care that have proved out elsewhere.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

I have a feeling that this vaster-than- normal generational revolution has something to do with the internet. Does a college student today identify more strongly with "his" US political party, or with Chinese, German, Swedish, and Moroccan college students who are exposed to the same information and fighting similar battles? It's time for big ideas like national health care that have proved out elsewhere.

My guess is for the 10% or so who are operating on all cylinders intellectually and technologically, the entire world over, nation means next to nothing now. Like race and religion it's an ape category.

For a million years the smart have had to hide from the far more numerous and violent dumb. The internet did change that. It used to be the dumb would get mad enough they'd just lynch you. That made life in a small town unbearable, so the smart moved to cities. Cities were a lot better but the dumb were still the vast majority and they could still vote to harm you. So the smart moved online.

It's not a Golden Age and we'll never really solve the problem without FTL and just literally getting away from them. But it's a step in the right direction.