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2020 Democratic Challengers

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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

SJHovey said:
Brazile's quotes are nothing more than a peek behind the curtain. Whether intentional or unintentional, they constitute an admission as to the true nature of the nomination process. All of these caucuses and primaries are just a different variation of Chomsky's manufactured consent. The parties can select whomever they want to serve as the nominee. All that matters is how they present it to the voters so that the voters think they're the ones who made the decision.
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Kind of. The process is heavily rigged, but Dump's nomination shows that The People actually can win through provided they are determined enough. Nobody on the Republican side wanted Dump to win. Nobody in the 1% wanted him to win. And yet... here he is.

It is one of the greatest ironies in American history that the guy who is singularly the biggest threat to democracy owes his victory to a genuinely miraculous triumph of the will of the people over the political machines.

It's just too bad he's a fascist and a f-cking moron.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Kepler said:
Kind of. The process is heavily rigged, but Dump's nomination shows that The People actually can win through provided they are determined enough. Nobody on the Republican side wanted Dump to win. Nobody in the 1% wanted him to win. And yet... here he is.

It is one of the greatest ironies in American history that the guy who is singularly the biggest threat to democracy owes his victory to a genuinely miraculous triumph of the will of the people over the political machines.

It's just too bad he's a fascist and a f-cking moron.
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Yeah, maybe. But I also think that it's more a sign of general incompetence at the top of the Republican Party machine than anything else. The reason Trump didn't get beat by the person the party leaders wanted is that the party leaders were too stupid and self-interested to actually take control and figure out who they wanted before it was too late.

As with a lot of other things political, the Republicans are running ahead of the Democrats on an important point, and that is the fracturing of the party. As you like to point out, we're all members of tribes. It is the nature of tribes to fracture as disagreements occur. The Republicans are fracturing first, and that left the door open to someone like Trump. The Democrats will soon follow. You're already starting to see the small fissures with people like Bernie and Brazile. The U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate will not look that much different than houses of Parliament or other governments in Europe. They've just had a centuries head start on us.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

SJHovey said:
Yeah, maybe. But I also think that it's more a sign of general incompetence at the top of the Republican Party machine than anything else. The reason Trump didn't get beat by the person the party leaders wanted is that the party leaders were too stupid and self-interested to actually take control and figure out who they wanted before it was too late.

As with a lot of other things political, the Republicans are running ahead of the Democrats on an important point, and that is the fracturing of the party. As you like to point out, we're all members of tribes. It is the nature of tribes to fracture as disagreements occur. The Republicans are fracturing first, and that left the door open to someone like Trump. The Democrats will soon follow. You're already starting to see the small fissures with people like Bernie and Brazile. The U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate will not look that much different than houses of Parliament or other governments in Europe. They've just had a centuries head start on us.
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I think we may actually be seeing a return to normalcy. The alignment of geography, cultural identity, and political affiliation that has split the US from the early 80s through now is an anomaly. It's far more typical for parties to be coalitions of interests that sometimes work at cross-purposes. The liberal / Dixiecrat split in the Democratic party from the 30s through the 50s is the textbook example.

We can only hope the parties fracture. Look at what the monolithic parties did to American domestic policy between the 1980s and now.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Rover said:
My favorite part of Brazile's lunacy is her disclosure that she'd unilaterally change the ticket in September if she thought Hillary was ill and give the nomination to Biden. :confused: Yo', Donna, no one has that power, and if Hillary couldn't answer the bell, the rightful next man up was Bernie Sanders, who, ya know, actually contested the nomination and won millions of votes. Apparently not satisfied with just negating the votes of people who voted for Clinton, Queen Donna wanted to negate all the Sanders ones too! If she gets within 1000 feet of the next Dem get-together they should have her arrested.
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Uh oh. Looks like even Rover is getting bamboozled by fake media.

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/05...witter-in-the-last-week-alone-that-are-false/
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

mookie1995 said:
is joeb going to throw his hat in tomorrow on today?
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Not really. "If no one steps up" sounds like "if Hillary somehow gets the DNC to clear the tables for her again". He's hoping someone younger than 70 with any kind of charisma runs.
 
bronconick said:
Not really. "If no one steps up" sounds like "if Hillary somehow gets the DNC to clear the tables for her again". He's hoping someone younger than 70 with any kind of charisma runs.
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If the usual suspects win in 2018, the House Dem leadership will be pushing 80.

I don't think the Founders envisioned the House as a place of lifetime employment.
 
joecct said:
If the usual suspects win in 2018, the House Dem leadership will be pushing 80.

I don't think the Founders envisioned the House as a place of lifetime employment.
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Oh sure they did. They could've easily put term limits into the Constitution and chose not to. The founding fathers were the ruling elite, they **** well wanted to stay that way for life.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

joecct said:
If the usual suspects win in 2018, the House Dem leadership will be pushing 80.

I don't think the Founders envisioned the House as a place of lifetime employment.
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Pretty sure they didn't envision the 2nd Amendment protecting the right to own an assault rifle either. Or the 1st protecting the free speech rights of corporations.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The Sicatoka said:
So, knowing that, why don't "We the People" implement term limits today (see: Article V).
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Don't We the People directly weigh in on that in every single election? Seems odd to indirectly stop ourselves from doing something that we do directly almost every chance we get.

The unintended consequence of terms limits is going to be a steady stream of new guys with their hands out trying to get theirs in the short time they've got in office. I actually want more people at the end of their lives who see less value in money, power, status and see things as more of their last chance to actually do something right - see John McCain finally walking all of the maverick talking he's done over his Senate career.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

E.J. Smith said:
Or the 1st protecting the free speech rights of corporations.
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I don't think they'd be opposed to free speech rights of corporations. At least I hope not. The idea that anyone in this country would argue against the free speech rights of anyone, or anything, is appalling to me. BUT THE MONEYEEZ!?!?!

Sorry, free speech isn't based upon how much or how little money someone or some thing has to spend on it. Furthermore, it's only speech. It's simply the free expression of an idea or opinion. No one is forcing you to listen to it or believe it.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

A few thoughts:

1) Term limits is a dumb idea. As we all learned the hard way in 2016, there's no substitute for actually participating in the election from Prez all the way down to dogcatcher.

2) Nancy Pelosi is the least to blame for the Dems current predicament as she got Obama's agenda passed as Speaker, which was her job, as well as she isn't a child molester (Hastert), a drunk (Boner) or granny starver (Ryan). Having said that I think the next congress win or lose she should pass the baton to someone else. She's been Dem house leader for like 15 years I think. That might be longer than Tip O'Neil spent as the top Dem.

3) If Trump keeps going the way he's been going, I wouldn't worry about finding enough Dems to run for Prez next time around regardless of age. How effective those people will be is another question...
 
SJHovey said:
I don't think they'd be opposed to free speech rights of corporations. At least I hope not. The idea that anyone in this country would argue against the free speech rights of anyone, or anything, is appalling to me. BUT THE MONEYEEZ!?!?!

Sorry, free speech isn't based upon how much or how little money someone or some thing has to spend on it. Furthermore, it's only speech. It's simply the free expression of an idea or opinion. No one is forcing you to listen to it or believe it.
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It's not us. It is our political masters who listen and believe when the money flows.

A corporation can spend all they want in the media to influence opinion. Buying an elected official is different -whether it is Monsanto or George Soros.

Maybe we need to go the way of the Mother Country and limit the election season and have free radio/TV for all candidates with a limit per day.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

bronconick said:
Not really. "If no one steps up" sounds like "if Hillary somehow gets the DNC to clear the tables for her again". He's hoping someone younger than 70 with any kind of charisma runs.
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There will be no shortage of Democratic candidates. Not only will we have everybody who thinks Dump is a rotten stump they can kick in, we'll also have everybody who stayed away in '16 because they believed the nomination had already been awarded.
 
Kepler said:
There will be no shortage of Democratic candidates. Not only will we have everybody who thinks Dump is a rotten stump they can kick in, we'll also have everybody who stayed away in '16 because they believed the nomination had already been awarded.
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Who under 60? Heck, find 70.
Manchin is 70.
Biden is 70++
Downtown Jerry Brown is 79.
Liz is 68!!!!
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Kepler said:
There will be no shortage of Democratic candidates. Not only will we have everybody who thinks Dump is a rotten stump they can kick in, we'll also have everybody who stayed away in '16 because they believed the nomination had already been awarded.
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Seems there'll be some serious sifting and winnowing to be done.
 
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