2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

[mookie1995]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Increasing the size of the court will be seen as more extreme than the Merrick Garland fiasco and will backfire

yup

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Bass & mookie = wusses! Don't show up with a knife to a gun fight. Take back the court to where it rightfully belonged and you can get rid of voter suppression and gerrymandering, the two things keeping the GOP within striking distance of the House. Hold the House at least and this won't be revisited for a long time. Court packing would be adding 20 justices. Restoring the balance that should have happened is restoring how the country should be governed. You can either take legal action or sit .back and complain, but realize that the GOP is now a treasonous money laundering cult with no pride, honor, or love of country. Get the court back to where it belongs (I'm not saying overturning the Kennedy replacement - that was on the level).

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I'm a little curious about the Brown race. It doesn't seem to me like they didn't try to contest it. It seems like the race never closed for them enough to not say "screw it" and focus elsewhere. Given that they invested in and won a high profile governor's face, clearly the GOP was engaged in Ohio last year and its not like them to give an arch progressive like Brown a free pass.

So what I'm curious about is where Brown's voters are coming from? He's either 1) winning crossover voters who are otherwise voting GOP, which would be interesting since again he's no Joe Manchin, or 2) lefties are coming out to vote for him and only him, and sitting out most other elections. Might be worth the time and effort to figure that out. I don't disagree with you about Ohio's rightward drift but its a good place to see if we can assemble a different coalition to win elections instead of relying on union members to use one example.

It seems like there are a couple of things going on in Ohio. One, Sherrod Brown is particularly popular among his constituents, and people did come out to vote for him who did not vote for Richard Cordray (democratic candidate for governor). Two, Brown took his win for granted and worked less than most in his position would. Perhaps he knew the other statewide races were tanking for the democrats and figured "why bother?" But on election day, a colleague of mine was canvassing on a final Get Out The Vote effort, and Brown answered his own door in his bathrobe. Wasn't even campaigning.

But there also appears to be a lot of flawed polling in Ohio.

Clinton was alleged to be within the margin of error in many polls yet got beat handily. Real Clear Politics polling averages had her as about 2 point underdog and she lost by more than 8, a result I predicted the Saturday before election day (I actually said she was going to lose by 9 and it ended up 8.5). Similar polling data abounded in 2018. Most polls in October of 2018 had Cordray leading, including some of the polls I saw being outside the so-called margin of error. Yet the republican candidate Mike DeWine never trailed as the results were coming out on Election Night and he ended up winning rather easily, as that race was one of the first called. Similarly, Sherrod Brown was polling at +18 in one October poll and his margin of victory was a third of that. Other polls had him up 9 or 10 points.

To be sure, some of the polls were closer, but many reliable polling organizations got Ohio completely wrong, and the aggregate polling numbers from places like Real Clear Politics and 538.com were way off, misses that were not common in their data on other states.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

And you’re not going to win if the court just blocks everything you try to do.

So your idea is to "pack the court" to even the odds and then in say 2028 when the GOP wins again just hope and pray they dont so the same thing putting us right back here only with no real recourse?

You are not going to win this fight. They arent going to just stop they are going to take whatever step you take and push it 2 levels farther. They wont just add justices they will start impeaching them. They will use every dirty trick in the book things we never even think of.

And Scooby what does Merrick Garland do except prove everything I am saying? (or is that what you are trying to do I am confused) They blocked a justice they themselves mentioned as being someone Obama should nominate (when he was rumored to go uber Lefty) because he nominated them. They have zero shame and will always find a way to go deeper down than any Dem will. And you are going to risk going against that for more justices. Unless I had 60 in the Senate and no hope of losing that for a long *** time I wouldnt even approach the idea. And the truth is, if they packed the court that would be all the motivation needed for the next election to flip on its side. Faux's ratings would skyrocket...

 

[unofan]

So your idea is to "pack the court" to even the odds and then in say 2028 when the GOP wins again just hope and pray they dont so the same thing putting us right back here only with no real recourse?

They're already doing it, just not at the Supreme Court level. So what's the difference? Better 8 years of control than none for another generation.

If nothing else, we owe them for Garland.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

They would, but they're also doing that already (Garland to Gorsuch). So the question is why should democrats care when the GOP clearly doesn't.

No they should absolutely care, but you are also handing them the chance to have a bigger majority that will never be defeated. The Democrats dont have the game to fight this war and they will never compromise themselves to the point it will take to win. This isnt the Untouchables and they arent Elliot Ness.

The Democrats are Sonny in the Godfather...and if they dont play this exactly right right they will get annihilated.

To use the analogy used in another post...you should fight fire with fire but you dont have to hand them more gasoline while doing it.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

The Democrats are Sonny in the Godfather...and if they dont play this exactly right right they will get annihilated.

Good illustration.

Sometimes I wonder if a few of the republicans I hear who are talking that maybe impeachment is warranted are not trying to set up democrats. Not anyone like Max Boot or John Dean, but there was someone from trump's transition team I heard on one of the NPR talking head shows and he was all in on maybe trump has committed impeachable acts. Don't fall for it democrats. Nancy Pelosi has it dead on. Impeachment is a non-starter unless it is bipartisan. I fear the democrats are dumb enough to take the bait though.

 

[mookie1995]

Bass & mookie = wusses! Don't show up with a knife to a gun fight. Take back the court to where it rightfully belonged and you can get rid of voter suppression and gerrymandering, the two things keeping the GOP within striking distance of the House. Hold the House at least and this won't be revisited for a long time. Court packing would be adding 20 justices. Restoring the balance that should have happened is restoring how the country should be governed. You can either take legal action or sit .back and complain, but realize that the GOP is now a treasonous money laundering cult with no pride, honor, or love of country. Get the court back to where it belongs (I'm not saying overturning the Kennedy replacement - that was on the level).

Then shoot three of the youngest. Replace them the legit way and get your balance back.

 

[trixR4kids]

Increasing the size of the court will be seen as more extreme than the Merrick Garland fiasco and will backfire

They’re going to say that no matter what the dems do, Merrick Garland literally proves that.

 

[trixR4kids]

So your idea is to "pack the court" to even the odds and then in say 2028 when the GOP wins again just hope and pray they dont so the same thing putting us right back here only with no real recourse?

Why do you think the republicans wouldn’t just do that anyhow if they didn’t have a majority? This isn’t hard to understand...

And we’re already in that position, there’s literally nothing to lose and there far more to lose by doing nothing and having a minority for the next 40 years. (Hint: you cant wait that ****ing long against fascists)

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Honestly what is your strategy, just do nothing like Obama for 4 years and act surprised when the republicans aren’t your pals? I suppose if you want to lose the house and every down ballot race it’s a good one!

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I dunno but I dont think adding Justices is a winning strategy.

I am all for fighting them tooth and nail over many issues, I just see bad things happening if we add more spots down the line.

It isnt going to happen anyways so it is probably not worth sweating about

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I dunno but I dont think adding Justices is a winning strategy.

I am all for fighting them tooth and nail over many issues, I just see bad things happening if we add more spots down the line.

It isnt going to happen anyways so it is probably not worth sweating about

It's worth discussing, though, because it points out that this is an abnormal situation. This isn't just politics -- the GOP has become a fascist party that is actively encouraging the violation of law, while enraging its dopey followers towards violent terrorist action. The right always has tendencies in this direction but the last generation has seen a rise of a pathological right similar to Germany between the wars. We owe it to the world not to let these f-cks have nuclear weapons. Right now the single greatest threat to humanity is coming from inside our own house. If we have to use a perfectly legal albeit non-normative strategy to save the world, boo hoo, let's risk taking the hit in the history books.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

It's worth discussing, though, because it points out that this is an abnormal situation. This isn't just politics -- the GOP has become a fascist party that is actively encouraging the violation of law, while enraging its dopey followers towards violent terrorist action. The right always has tendencies in this direction but the last generation has seen a rise of a pathological right similar to Germany between the wars. We owe it to the world not to let these f-cks have nuclear weapons. Right now the single greatest threat to humanity is coming from inside our own house. If we have to use a perfectly legal albeit non-normative strategy to save the world, boo hoo, let's risk taking the hit in the history books.

....still easier to shoot some.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Is the SC really that out of balance right now? Aside from Citizens United (which happened well before) has the current SC royally effed us over of late and/or ruled in a such a manner several times over that suggests they only care about politics and not rule of law?

Follow the process no matter how despicable the Republicans have been. I think more and more people are beginning to see through the facade and as long as the Democrats don't Democrat votes will continue to favor them more often than not through the next several cycles.

 

[unofan]

Is the SC really that out of balance right now? Aside from Citizens United (which happened well before) has the current SC royally effed us over of late and/or ruled in a such a manner several times over that suggests they only care about politics and not rule of law?

Follow the process no matter how despicable the Republicans have been. I think more and more people are beginning to see through the facade and as long as the Democrats don't Democrat votes will continue to favor them more often than not through the next several cycles.

It's death by 1,000 paper cuts. They've had 40 years to chip away at things in the non high profile stuff. Their interpretation of the federal arbitration act, for instance, had screwed over more people than citizens United.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

....still easier to shoot some.

Thank you, John Grisham.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

It's death by 1,000 paper cuts. They've had 40 years to chip away at things in the non high profile stuff. Their interpretation of the federal arbitration act, for instance, had screwed over more people than citizens United.

This. c.f. choice.

 

[trixR4kids]

Is the SC really that out of balance right now? Aside from Citizens United (which happened well before) has the current SC royally effed us over of late and/or ruled in a such a manner several times over that suggests they only care about politics and not rule of law?

Bush v Gore would like a word, Janus is a more recent example.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Is the SC really that out of balance right now? Aside from Citizens United (which happened well before) has the current SC royally effed us over of late and/or ruled in a such a manner several times over that suggests they only care about politics and not rule of law?

Follow the process no matter how despicable the Republicans have been. I think more and more people are beginning to see through the facade and as long as the Democrats don't Democrat votes will continue to favor them more often than not through the next several cycles.

Uh, yes, yes it is.