What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Kepler said:
The choices are:

1. UBI
2. Massive population die off in wars, civil unrest, and famine
3. Genetic change in the population bringing intelligence forward and pushing aggression out

I suspect we'll have a combination of all three. It's possible gene therapy will save the day before there's a war of all against all among the dummies, but either way they will be bred out.
Click to expand...

To be honest I don't get why these concepts and why they're happening is so difficult for people to grasp.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

ScoobyDoo said:
To be honest I don't get why these concepts and why they're happening is so difficult for people to grasp.
Click to expand...

They're not. Younger people have already figured it out -- what we see here and on the tube is the dying whine of the dodo bird. The Cafe is a bathtub ring of what was in the tub 30 years ago and is now running down the drain.

Apres nous, la deluge.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Kepler said:
You are missing the point. You don't have to be on our side, but you should be respectful and not try to triangulate your way by undercutting all your possible allies. That's the Hillary Way: the Entitlement of the DLC. It ruined this country.

By all means speak passionately for your ideas but stop undercutting the stronger liberals in our coalition. You know for a fact that you will always get about 98% of what you want in the platform, because that's how the Democratic party goes. My side will never dominate the party. You have controlled the party since the mid 70s and will in the future.

BUT YOU CAN'T KEEP WRECKING EVERYTHING THAT IS FARTHER LEFT OF YOU, OR THE COUNTRY WILL KEEP SLIDING RIGHT. Why you can't see what is a simple fact is beyond me. Your ideas will control the party but if you keep destroying the reputation of the left in this country then our choices will be far right vs center, and we will keep on sliding deeper into the right wing sewer.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your martyr complex as much as the next guy. You are the left's version of Bob Gray. However I'm on board with almost all new progressive ideas with the exception of UBI (Green New Deal is a little vague at this point). If someone for example is on board with the House Dem bill to extend Medicare for all to everyone not covered by employer insurance, but allowing people to keep their employer insurance if they so desire while having the option to switch to the govt plan if they want to, that does not make me a righty or a centrist. That part of the equation is what you constantly miss.
 
Spartanforlife4 said:
Are you saying the ones who would benefit the most from it are the ones against it? Because, yeah, that seems about right in line with how things have gone lately.
Click to expand...

Those who you think would “benefit” didn’t get universal coverage. They paid up to allow others to get it. It was done half arsed.
Universal coverage needs to be implemented for all to get it at a relative low cost.
You can’t jack up the price for folks who can’t otherwise afford that and expect them to say thanks.
Forget this crazy UBI and have the 70% rate on Nancy and hilly and tD and Jared cover the masses along with the 3% wealth tax.

Interesting how you say it “would” benefit them, when it didn’t the first time around. Do it fvcking right the first time.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Rover said:
I appreciate your martyr complex as much as the next guy. You are the left's version of Bob Gray.
Click to expand...

You are toxic. You and Hillary deserve each other.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

mookie1995 said:
Those who you think would “benefit” didn’t get universal coverage. They paid up to allow others to get it. It was done half arsed.
Universal coverage needs to be implemented for all to get it at a relative low cost.
You can’t jack up the price for folks who can’t otherwise afford that and expect them to say thanks.
Forget this crazy UBI and have the 70% rate on Nancy and hilly and tD and Jared cover the masses along with the 3% wealth tax.

Interesting how you say it “would” benefit them, when it didn’t the first time around. Do it fvcking right the first time.
Click to expand...

You remember why we went with ACA over Single Payer, right? It was people saying "forget about this insane, pie in the sky Single Payer and concentrate on something you can get."

But I agree with your premise. I'd have gone with Single Payer right from the start and told Heritage to go screw, no separate stream but everything paid from the general fund, financed by restoring redistributive taxation on the wealthy and clawing back the $20-odd trillion they've stolen since 1981.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Kepler said:
You remember why we went with ACA over Single Payer, right? It was people saying "forget about this insane, pie in the sky Single Payer and concentrate on something you can get."

But I agree with your premise. I'd have gone with Single Payer right from the start and told Heritage to go screw, no separate stream but everything paid from the general fund, financed by restoring redistributive taxation on the wealthy and clawing back the $20-odd trillion they've stolen since 1981.
Click to expand...

Never ceases to amaze me how forgetful people are. We all should know why we ended up with Obamacare, what it is, and what it is not.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Kepler said:
You remember why we went with ACA over Single Payer, right? It was people saying "forget about this insane, pie in the sky Single Payer and concentrate on something you can get."

But I agree with your premise. I'd have gone with Single Payer right from the start and told Heritage to go screw, no separate stream but everything paid from the general fund, financed by restoring redistributive taxation on the wealthy and clawing back the $20-odd trillion they've stolen since 1981.
Click to expand...

Aaannnd so you would have allowed the whole effort to fail because you wouldn't have had the votes. Interesting (and tough sh it I guess for the 20M+ people who gained coverage as a result of the ACA).
 
Rover said:
Aaannnd so you would have allowed the whole effort to fail because you wouldn't have had the votes. Interesting (and tough sh it I guess for the 20M+ people who gained coverage as a result of the ACA).
Click to expand...

And now they don’t, cause it was doomed to fail.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

ScoobyDoo said:
Technically, no, it doesn't. It's been gutted.
Click to expand...

So all those people on expanded Medicaid don't actually have expanded Medicaid? Huh. Its not that I don't believe you Scooby, but perhaps you could post a link that verifies your data...
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I think that for now, regardless of your opinions on them, you have to set aside things like UBI and college tuition. Universal healthcare has to be the main message. It has, by far, the broadest appeal it has ever had among the electorate.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
I think that for now, regardless of your opinions on them, you have to set aside things like UBI and college tuition. Universal healthcare has to be the main message. It has, by far, the broadest appeal it has ever had among the electorate.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put UBI and college tuition above the fold in the platform and I wouldn't run on it except in front of very selective audiences. Free college tuition is not even in my top 10 items because it's primarily upper middle class relief and they don't need it as much as the truly Po. But I would put it in there.

My emphasis on UBI drives right to the destination rather than worrying about complex piecemeal point of service programs. Just cut to the chase and flat out abolish poverty by giving the poor money. Stop rationing opportunity by wealth -- that is immoral. My goal is a very large UBI and no other relief programs (social security, etc) at all. End. Poverty. Period.

But I realize that can't happen until enough people have detached deservingness and work in their heads, and there is still an enormous social superstructure that reinforces that every second of every day in order to maintain the dictatorship of the wealthy. That's a fight for another generation which I won't see realized unless there is reincarnation in which case look out Rover I'm coming for your 22nd century fortune.

In the meantime, we just keep bailing and adding band aids and fighting back the fascists.
 
Last edited:
geezer said:
I think Joe Biden should run. Likeability is key. And what's not to like?
Click to expand...
Lmao

Also why are we discussing UBI in this thread? The only person that’s seriously proposed it is Yang and it’s basically just a ****ty libertarian version in which they roll all other benefits into it and it basically just screws poor people.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

trixR4kids said:
Lmao

Also why are we discussing UBI in this thread? The only person that’s seriously proposed it is Yang and it’s basically just a ****ty libertarian version in which they roll all other benefits into it and it basically just screws poor people.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter if we discuss UBI or not. We're getting nothing.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Kepler said:
My goal is a very large UBI and no other relief programs (social security, etc) at all. End. Poverty. Period.
Click to expand...

trixR4kids said:
Also why are we discussing UBI in this thread? The only person that’s seriously proposed it is Yang and it’s basically just a ****ty libertarian version in which they roll all other benefits into it and it basically just screws poor people.
Click to expand...

So Kep, I guess you're just a sh*tty libertarian now. :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top