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2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

First Time said:
See Kepler.
Blaming it all on Obama is short-sighted.
And BTW...your boy Bernie...isnt going to be some magic uniter either.
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Remember though, Bernie is kinda my boy too. I'd prefer Warren but for whatever reason the Flyovers think she's lecturing them. I don't get it at all and maybe our Minny contingent can explain it to me. How can speaking the truth be patronizing? It's the truth. It doesn't care about your feelings.

trix has shocked me the last few days and I'm done with him for a while. It's like he's vamping the stereotypical "my way or the highway" Leftist that Handy thinks is all of us. It's irritating not just because it is alienating and ineffective, but it gives the Center and the Right fuel to disregard us as unreasonable ideologues. And that is precisely what we are not. The Right protects its privileges and entitlement in national political discourse by getting the public to dismiss the Left out of hand without listening (because once they listen they start nodding). Do not help them do that!

There can be no Uniter. The country is legitimately split, with approximately one-third of voters trapped in a radical right emotional spiral of identity and hatred. We have to hack off that limb. There is no negotiating with it. We have to get the other two-thirds of the country together and say Adolph doesn't get to play any more reindeer games.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

Nobody is saying we can or should negotiate with them, that’s never been my critique and scooby was the one who argued that.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

As for Liz the problem is that she’s trying to triangulate on nearly everything and is finally facing some media scrutiny for the first time.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
Where are you getting that Minnesotans don’t like Liz?

https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black...vored-by-minnesota-dfl-likely-primary-voters/
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I'm ask Minnesotans to explain why The Heartland reacts to Warren as if she were Hillary. Or are you saying that's just a lazy Beltway/media narrative and they don't at all? I've heard plenty of interviews with man/woman in the street in small town USA where they say "I just don't like that woman" or "maybe the ideas are OK but I can't hear them through her snootiness." Again, though, the access to those interviews is gated and they could be cherry picked.

If Warren is playing huge in the sane parts of the Midwest I am overjoyed. My impression is she isn't, hence the OH-PA-MI-WI agita and the run under Biden's skirt.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

trixR4kids said:
As for Liz the problem is that she’s trying to triangulate on nearly everything and is finally facing some media scrutiny for the first time.
Click to expand...

This is not meant as an insult but I don't think you understand what triangulate means. Warren is many things but she isn't the trype of pol who expropriates the other side's rhetoric and then feeds it back to the electorate. She definitely takes a stand.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

I mean, MN has been reliably blue for prez unlike our neighbors so maybe we’re different. Liz came here this summer and drew huge crowds.

Honestly she can campaign on Biden’s health care plan and I don’t care as long as she turns around and rams socialized care through a year later
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
I mean, MN has been reliably blue for prez unlike our neighbors so maybe we’re different. Liz came here this summer and drew huge crowds.

Honestly she can campaign on Biden’s health care plan and I don’t care as long as she turns around and rams socialized care through a year later
Click to expand...

<img src="https://media1.giphy.com/media/IkvcETAgsoHo4/source.gif" >
 
Kepler said:
This is not meant as an insult but I don't think you understand what triangulate means. Warren is many things but she isn't the trype of pol who expropriates the other side's rhetoric and then feeds it back to the electorate. She definitely takes a stand.
Click to expand...
Trying to find a middle ground on healthcare (Unworkable public option) and immigration (we need to keep ICE for god knows what reason) that appeases the left and center like she has definitely meets that definition. I think people are either doubting her commitment to the working class or how serious she is about truly reforming things.

Also when she’s asked even remotely critical questions like what black politicians could be in her cabinet and she does the awe gee shucks thing, that probably doesn’t help her much with that demographic.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

Thanks for your valuable one liner dumbass

In all seriousness Obama had an entire army of grass roots support that he completely gutted. That might’ve been helpful in combatting the tea party or at least keeping his base engaged. Obviously that’s not the only critique of him that lead to the current situation but acting like the wave result had nothing to do with him would be equally silly.

As we now know, that grand vision for a postcampaign movement never came to fruition. Instead of mobilizing his unprecedented grassroots machine to pressure obstructionist lawmakers, support state and local candidates who shared his vision, and counter the Tea Party, Obama mothballed his campaign operation, bottling it up inside the Democratic National Committee. It was the seminal mistake of his presidency—one that set the tone for the next eight years of dashed hopes, and helped pave the way for Donald Trump to harness the pent-up demand for change Obama had unleashed.

“We lost this election eight years ago,” concludes Michael Slaby, the campaign’s chief technology officer. “Our party became a national movement focused on general elections, and we lost touch with nonurban, noncoastal communities. There is a straight line between our failure to address the culture and systemic failures of Washington and this election result.”
Click to expand...
https://newrepublic.com/article/140245/obamas-lost-army-inside-fall-grassroots-machine
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
I mean, MN has been reliably blue for prez unlike our neighbors so maybe we’re different.
Click to expand...

Careful how with your distinctions. Minn went Blue by only 1.5% in the '16 presidential race and Wi was Red by only 1%. Pretty slim difference, certainly not enough to make easy generalizations moving forward.

Now, WI has recently committed egregious electoral sins with the likes of Walker, Johnson, and our last Supreme Ct. member which Minn has pretty much avoided (well, excepting Bachmann), but the presidential edges were very thin in both places.
 
trixR4kids said:
Thanks for your valuable one liner dumbass

In all seriousness Obama had an entire army of grass roots support that he completely gutted. That might’ve been helpful in combatting the tea party or at least keeping his base engaged. Obviously that’s not the only critique of him that lead to the current situation but acting like the wave result had nothing to do with him would be equally silly.

https://newrepublic.com/article/140245/obamas-lost-army-inside-fall-grassroots-machine
Click to expand...


It's not Obama ALONE that did or didn't do anything.
So yeah...when you push that narrative while claiming anything else is out of touch with reality...you get the replies you do.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

Well at least you moved to strawmanning, baby steps I guess. The reality is he paved the way for 2016 which was as much a referendum of the party establishment and him as much as it was Hillary. I’ve never claimed it’s all or nothing (you can go back a whole page and read it yourself) just that he bares a lot of responsibility for what happened.
 
trixR4kids said:
Well at least you moved to strawmanning, baby steps I guess. The reality is he paved the way for 2016 which was as much a referendum of the party establishment and him as much as it was Hillary. I’ve never claimed it’s all or nothing (you can go back a whole page and read it yourself) just that he bares a lot of responsibility for what happened.
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The party bares responsibility...not a lot of it is based on one person at all and never has been.
You wanna keep rehashing 2016 fine...but continuing to parrot the same narrative over and over does not and will not make you right.
Just like Scooby and his chicken littling doesn't make him right.
I await your next insult...
 
burd said:
Careful how with your distinctions. Minn went Blue by only 1.5% in the '16 presidential race and Wi was Red by only 1%. Pretty slim difference, certainly not enough to make easy generalizations moving forward.

Now, WI has recently committed egregious electoral sins with the likes of Walker, Johnson, and our last Supreme Ct. member which Minn has pretty much avoided (well, excepting Bachmann), but the presidential edges were very thin in both places.
Click to expand...
I remember hearing we were gonna go red since the margin shrunk for the gwb first term. Then George did what George did and that margin got buffer again.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
I remember hearing we were gonna go red since the margin shrunk for the gwb first term. Then George did what George did and that margin got buffer again.
Click to expand...

Minn has a strong tradition for liberal presidential candidates, with Hump, Mondale, McCarthy (Stassen :)). But it has a significant rural population and vulnerable to the kind of shyt that has happened here in WI, which has its own strong liberal tradition.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

The difference is though the Liberal Cities so out population the rural areas it would take a clean sweep of every rural voter to win. The MNGOP proved that with their stupid attempt at stopping Gay Marriage.

Wisconsin has a different ratio.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

Kepler said:
There can be no Uniter. The country is legitimately split, with approximately one-third of voters trapped in a radical right emotional spiral of identity and hatred. We have to hack off that limb. There is no negotiating with it. We have to get the other two-thirds of the country together and say Adolph doesn't get to play any more reindeer games.
Click to expand...

This, this, this.
 
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