2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Who here is actually going to vote for Biden in the primary? Anyone?

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

In the context of a primary where there are clearly better options, how exactly am I wrong that we shouldn't pick the guy who has a fossil fuel exec as his climate adviser if we care about the future of this planet?

Who here is actually going to vote for Biden in the primary? Anyone?

Geezer just made the argument that he's somehow a pragmatic choice for getting rid of Trump.

Amicability. In the race for who people are really comfortable with on a human level, it's down to Uncle Joe and Mayor Pete.
It's important to remember than insofar as who is elected president, it doesn't matter at all who is smartest, who has the ideas most likely to affect positive change, who has been the most successful, etc. Look at every election ever: who do the voters like, as people? They vote for someone who is gregarious, pretends to be down to earth, pretends to respect everyone, and so on. It's simply a popularity contest, no more.
IMO it's more important to get Trump out of office than to get (your) "best" possible candidate nominated.

In the context of a primary thread this reads like someone making the case for Biden over the candidates with superior policy sets.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

On point article about reporters chasing stupid stories...

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-23/beware-of-silly-season-2020-campaign-reporting

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Ythat's why people shouldn't vote for him in the primary. Obviously the parties aren't the same and nobody has ever said that but if we actually care about the planet being habitable during the remainder of our lifetime then we need to push back on everyone in both parties who doesn't take it seriously.

Which is why Warren and Sanders are better choices now, and Inslee was back in the day.

But please don't say "under Biden WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!" because that does equate him to Dump. After all, dead is dead. Biden will not lead the way say Sanders would, but an activist Congress can control what comes in front of his pen.

The distance between the best Democrat and the worst Democrat is interplanetary.

The distance between the worst Democrat and the best Republican is interstellar.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

... but you're still the idiot.

Be that as it may, it doesn't change the evidence that trix is a loon. How many times do you have to go around with him before you realize that he considers everybody to the right of Sanders equally bad or unworthy of his vote, from Lizzy Warren on down? For all the things he's said about Warren it astounds me you're still going to bat for the guy given the stakes involved in 2020.

 

[BassAle]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

nothing has been done about this problem for decades under both republican and dem administrations so it's not just the nazis who are to blame for it

It's a lie to say nothing had been done. Maybe not _enough_ has been done, but the Clean Power Plan, Paris Accord, moratorium on coal leasing, directing the dept of interior to permit gigawatts of additional wind and solar projects, increased automobile milage standards is not nothing. Uncle Joe or Hillary wouldn't have undone that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Who here is actually going to vote for Biden in the primary? Anyone?

If I had to guess from their histories, Handy, Rover though he won't admit it (what is Biden but prettier Hillary?), mookie if there's some yellow trim in it, and then maybe, maybe SJHovey cuz he really has had enough of Dump.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

If I had to guess from their histories, Handy, Rover though he won't admit it (what is Biden but prettier Hillary?), mookie if there's some yellow trim in it, and then maybe, maybe SJHovey cuz he really has had enough of Dump.

I was on the Warren train long before you were Kep, and besides, if she does win you once again have to admit that Massachusetts rules! Why would I want to pass that up for Uncle Joe?

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Be that as it may, it doesn't change the evidence that trix is a loon. How many times do you have to go around with him before you realize that he considers everybody to the right of Sanders equally bad or unworthy of his vote, from Lizzy Warren on down? For all the things he's said about Warren it astounds me you're still going to bat for the guy given the stakes involved in 2020.

He's not a loon for saying climate change is such an existential threat that we have to act radically. He is likely correct that Biden isn't equipped to recognize that this is as serious as a knife-wielding intruder. He is a 50-year product of the comfortable, laid back Beltway culture that believes the best thing to do is nothing and that this will blow over.

We're going to have to force him, so we'll force him. We'll take Congress and we'll write legislation. And if the voters care we'll win and if they don't then everybody dies.

But that's worlds different from Dump, with who it doesn't matter if the voters care because he's going to kill us anyway.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

I don't think the plurality of the electorate wants to see the planet end, which is essentially what you're voting for if you pick Biden.

The thing is, the individual who is elected president doesn't much matter, as long as it's not a Republican, and especially except when it's "Donald Trump" or some other insane criminal. The coming necessary changes will be bottom-up and widespread, no matter if the executive signing the final documents is Biden, Warren, Sanders, or any other pretty face. The "PLANET IS ENDING" nonsense is why a ton of people who are impatient with nonsense voted for Trump.
Most Trump voters are not stupider than you, or less caring, or more evil. They just don't want people like you telling them how they have to think and act. They resent harsh accusations that they are living their lives wrongly. And then in a blunder of historic proportions, they voted (for Donald Trump! The guy from that one show lol!) with their middle fingers, and then got willingly sucked into a gaslit haze of reinforcement and obfuscation by profiteers at Fox News.
The planet isn't ending. Society is shifting with a slow, grinding resistance.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

After all, dead is dead.

Yeah that's kinda the point though, unless you're ignoring all of the science on the subject that says we have something like 12 years to act with extreme urgency on the issue then voting for Biden in the primary is insanely stupid.

Biden will not lead the way say Sanders would, but an activist Congress can control what comes in front of his pen. Biden will not lead the way say Sanders would, but an activist Congress can control what comes in front of his pen.

We currently have activists in congress who mostly just get shat on by Pelosi and will face more corporate friendly challengers (weirdly enough no word on that for Joe Manchin), under Biden this will almost certainly not change.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

I was on the Warren train long before you were Kep, and besides, if she does win you once again have to admit that Massachusetts rules! Why would I want to pass that up for Uncle Joe?

Dr. Mrs. has us both beat. She read Two Income Trap in 2004 and I sh-t thee not she told me, "I want this woman to be president someday."

I've voted for Dukakis and Kerry in my lifetime. I am perfectly capable of voting for a Massachusetts politician for president while retaining the understanding that Massachusetts is Washington state with less attractive sights and people.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

In the context of a primary where there are clearly better options, how exactly am I wrong that we shouldn't pick the guy who has a fossil fuel exec as his climate adviser if we care about the future of this planet?Geezer just made the argument that he's somehow a pragmatic choice for getting rid of Trump.

In the context of a primary thread this reads like someone making the case for Biden over the candidates with superior policy sets.

No, I like Pete, and would stick with Bernie for another round over Biden. I was just taking a guess at the question that was posed of "why" Biden's numbers are up.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

It's a lie to say nothing had been done. Maybe not _enough_ has been done, but the Clean Power Plan, Paris Accord, moratorium on coal leasing, directing the dept of interior to permit gigawatts of additional wind and solar projects, increased automobile milage standards is not nothing. Uncle Joe or Hillary wouldn't have undone that.

The Paris accord is non-binding, it's basically a feel good measure. The coal leasing moratorium didn't allow new leases on federal lands but didn't do anything about the current ones. As far as I know most automobile companies are just following the old standards since they know they'll likely have to follow those in the future anyhow (and it's good PR). So while you're right that these measures technically aren't 'nothing' they also haven't really accomplished anything near what we need to do to reverse this trend.

No, I like Pete, and would stick with Bernie for another round over Biden. I was just taking a guess at the question that was posed of "why" Biden's numbers are up.

Fair enough and my comments are more generally directed at those who support Biden in the primary.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Most Trump voters are not stupider than you, or less caring, or more evil.

Ever eat with one?

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Dr. Mrs. has us both beat. She read Two Income Trap in 2004 and I sh-t thee not she told me, "I want this woman to be president someday."

I've voted for Dukakis and Kerry in my lifetime. I am perfectly capable of voting for a Massachusetts politician for president while retaining the understanding that Massachusetts is Washington state with less attractive sights and people.

Great, and since she gives you an allowance every week can I get one too since I'm also in Warren's camp?

I'm happy to be compared to the great state of Washington. Can't speak for the relative attractiveness of the population out there but I do know we have far better sports teams. I will note also that the "good lookingness" measure for Mass increased once mookie left town for his gig jet setting around the globe.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Fair enough and my comments are more generally directed at those who support Biden in the primary.

And thus my question, are any of our regular posters actually going to vote for Biden as their first choice in the primary? I haven't seen a single post voicing support for him. Mostly a lot of groaning and eye-rolling at his obvious senility.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

And thus my question, are any of our regular posters actually going to vote for Biden as their first choice in the primary? I haven't seen a single post voicing support for him. Mostly a lot of groaning and eye-rolling at his obvious senility.

I'm not aware of anybody but this board isn't exactly his demographic. Uncle Joe is a default candidate. I personally have him 3rd on my list of preferred candidates.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

And thus my question, are any of our regular posters actually going to vote for Biden as their first choice in the primary? I haven't seen a single post voicing support for him. Mostly a lot of groaning and eye-rolling at his obvious senility.

Fair enough, I don't think anyone here necessarily has to express support for the guy to talk about why the logic behind voting for him is flawed as it mostly relies on a false hope of a return to "normalcy" (and also Geezer clarified the post that started this conversation so that helps).

 

[BassAle]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

I'm not aware of anybody but this board isn't exactly his demographic. Uncle Joe is a default candidate. I personally have him 3rd on my list of preferred candidates.

If there were any Biden supporters on the board Trix isn't going to convince them to come over to his side by calling them idiots.

Trix: promote your favorite candidate, but stop ****ting on anyone not Bernie. Chances are you're going to have to get on the Warren or Biden train after the primary if you want to get rid of Trump.