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2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
- Thread starter ticapnews
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
Except the part where I said I can be replaced. Idiot.
Except the part where I said I can be replaced. Idiot.
aparch
Acetaminamerican
People like Rube will vote against it because "think of how many people will become unemployed when insurance companies dissappear."
ticapnews
Never graduate.
One insurance company refused a dental procedure, explaining that teeth are "luxury bones"
The responses to Bernie's social media posts asking for the worst denial ever are both comical and depressing.
ticapnews
Never graduate.
People like Rube will vote against it because "think of how many people will become unemployed when insurance companies dissappear."
And those are "real" jobs!
rufus
rock and roller
But we can't have government rationing healthcare
rufus
rock and roller
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
Knew the concept but had never heard the term. Thanks!
Knew the concept but had never heard the term. Thanks!
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
We need to make this part of the natural thinking process of voters when they evaluate taxation. Conservatives sold the idea that less government equals more spending money. This is often insincere since government provides services which otherwise you have to pay for personally. Less government frequently means less spending money. We need to hammer this simple fact home 24/7/365. That's what people are voting on. That's the kitchen table conversation.
We need to make this part of the natural thinking process of voters when they evaluate taxation. Conservatives sold the idea that less government equals more spending money. This is often insincere since government provides services which otherwise you have to pay for personally. Less government frequently means less spending money. We need to hammer this simple fact home 24/7/365. That's what people are voting on. That's the kitchen table conversation.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
The "ripping the bandage off" is probably the correct way of making this change, but as you note, politically it faces an uphill battle because of the unknown.
If I were in charge of getting to a point of M4A, I would do it incrementally. I'd start by lowering the eligibility age, while at the same time making it available for all minors. Then I'd gradually start squeezing by adding in kids in college, lowering the eligibility age again, until the next thing you know you turn around and everyone is on medicare.
The "ripping the bandage off" is probably the correct way of making this change, but as you note, politically it faces an uphill battle because of the unknown.
If I were in charge of getting to a point of M4A, I would do it incrementally. I'd start by lowering the eligibility age, while at the same time making it available for all minors. Then I'd gradually start squeezing by adding in kids in college, lowering the eligibility age again, until the next thing you know you turn around and everyone is on medicare.
RaceBoarder
Waiting for the Snow to fly...
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
This is my biggest question regarding M4A or any massive change to the current scam system really: How long of a transitional period are we looking at? Is it a 1 year, 5 year, or 10 year deal to full implementation? Obviously there will be fights from insurance companies and the medical industry to milk the last bits of their inflated revenue stream because that well will run dry in this scenario.
This is my biggest question regarding M4A or any massive change to the current scam system really: How long of a transitional period are we looking at? Is it a 1 year, 5 year, or 10 year deal to full implementation? Obviously there will be fights from insurance companies and the medical industry to milk the last bits of their inflated revenue stream because that well will run dry in this scenario.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
Its gotta be voluntary to make it happen politically. IF M4A is the superior choice, people will realize that and migrate over from private insurance. As everybody does, their employer needs to pay into the Medicare system whatever they were contributing to that employee's coverage. This is a revenue stream for the program and it prevents companies from just taking that money and sending it right back to shareholders (anybody who thinks they will hand out raises instead is out of their minds or has been asleep for the last 50 years). Dems already have a bill written that accomplished all of this.
For all of Lizzy's stellar work on policy, she needs to embrace this.
Its gotta be voluntary to make it happen politically. IF M4A is the superior choice, people will realize that and migrate over from private insurance. As everybody does, their employer needs to pay into the Medicare system whatever they were contributing to that employee's coverage. This is a revenue stream for the program and it prevents companies from just taking that money and sending it right back to shareholders (anybody who thinks they will hand out raises instead is out of their minds or has been asleep for the last 50 years). Dems already have a bill written that accomplished all of this.
For all of Lizzy's stellar work on policy, she needs to embrace this.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
We can either move the young immediately and keep the legacies on the existing system or we can move everybody but emulate the old system for the legacies so they never see a difference.
We do this all the time in my business. You're transitioning to a new system but you've got an enormous install base / user community set in their ways. The aim is to implement the better system as soon as possible to decrease long term waste. So you draw a line and say "if you're invested in the old way beyond this point you can stay if you want. Everybody else come with me if you want to live." It's unpleasant but it prevents the natural result of trying to negotiate every detail ahead of time: eternal paralysis.
Big pharm and insurance and the Hospital Industrial Complex can see their gravy train is threatened and their strategy will be to induce eternal paralysis. Republicans will help them because anything that protects us from the depredation of private capital is anathema to them -- we are lambs to be slaughtered.
Change always has many enemies so we have to divide and conquer. As you say, calm the fears of those who are too old and tired to think about change, and start everybody new off on the right foot. Nature will then take Her course and the transition from insurance will be -- ironically -- a function of actuarial tables.
We can either move the young immediately and keep the legacies on the existing system or we can move everybody but emulate the old system for the legacies so they never see a difference.
We do this all the time in my business. You're transitioning to a new system but you've got an enormous install base / user community set in their ways. The aim is to implement the better system as soon as possible to decrease long term waste. So you draw a line and say "if you're invested in the old way beyond this point you can stay if you want. Everybody else come with me if you want to live." It's unpleasant but it prevents the natural result of trying to negotiate every detail ahead of time: eternal paralysis.
Big pharm and insurance and the Hospital Industrial Complex can see their gravy train is threatened and their strategy will be to induce eternal paralysis. Republicans will help them because anything that protects us from the depredation of private capital is anathema to them -- we are lambs to be slaughtered.
Change always has many enemies so we have to divide and conquer. As you say, calm the fears of those who are too old and tired to think about change, and start everybody new off on the right foot. Nature will then take Her course and the transition from insurance will be -- ironically -- a function of actuarial tables.
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St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
Any M4A plan will include an optional insurance market, for people who want "premium" care. They medical insurance market won't completely vanish, but the remaining players will be much smaller and won't be the companies currently scamming the poor.
Any M4A plan will include an optional insurance market, for people who want "premium" care. They medical insurance market won't completely vanish, but the remaining players will be much smaller and won't be the companies currently scamming the poor.
RaceBoarder
Waiting for the Snow to fly...
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
I'm envisioning the problem being with the medical providers actually. Under M4A, they won't be able to play the games with their prices. Example:
- Procedure X
- Person with no insurance gets a bill for $5000. (Hospital Looks to get all $5000. Slight risk they don't see all $5k, but may take time)
- Person has BIG Co. INSURANCE. $5000 bill is submitted. Bill is adjusted to $3200. Insurance pays all $3200 (Lower payout, but guaranteed money)
Under M4A, doesn't it become Medicare offering $2200 for the procedure, take it or leave it? Providers are no longer setting the prices in that sense.
I'm envisioning the problem being with the medical providers actually. Under M4A, they won't be able to play the games with their prices. Example:
- Procedure X
- Person with no insurance gets a bill for $5000. (Hospital Looks to get all $5000. Slight risk they don't see all $5k, but may take time)
- Person has BIG Co. INSURANCE. $5000 bill is submitted. Bill is adjusted to $3200. Insurance pays all $3200 (Lower payout, but guaranteed money)
Under M4A, doesn't it become Medicare offering $2200 for the procedure, take it or leave it? Providers are no longer setting the prices in that sense.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
And that's all I want. I don't care if insurance companies take turns spit roasting the rich. They can all DIAF. As long as we have universal free coverage then whatever nonsense you want to lard on top to make the Dump sons feel superior is AOK.
And that's all I want. I don't care if insurance companies take turns spit roasting the rich. They can all DIAF. As long as we have universal free coverage then whatever nonsense you want to lard on top to make the Dump sons feel superior is AOK.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
That’s probably the best way to go about it in the real world. I like the idea of adding minors, dependents, and college kids first. Make them permanent?
That’s probably the best way to go about it in the real world. I like the idea of adding minors, dependents, and college kids first. Make them permanent?
ericredaxe
Veteran
That sounds great.... but how do you know taxes will only go up “a little bit”?
And, can’t a government run program just as easily deny a procedure or claim as a private insurance company can?
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country
has to be all inclusive to fund it properly.
and has to be 'premium' or people won't accept it.
---go big or go home. this shouldn't be rocket science
has to be all inclusive to fund it properly.
and has to be 'premium' or people won't accept it.
---go big or go home. this shouldn't be rocket science
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