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2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Even during the Pawlenty years, the State of MN increased its funding to MnSCU and the U of MN schools at a rate that exceeded inflation. The problem hasn't been funding, the problem has been on the side of the universities, and yes, our culture in general. The demand curve for four-year degrees had been shifting rightward along the supply curve for a long time, starting in the 80s, and continuing until the last five or so years. Rightward shifts in the demand curve always correlate to higher prices. Universities noted that trend and increased their tuition and fees to account for that shift.

While I think colleges and universities take the lion's share of the blame in higher ed. pricing, we've enabled it by pushing the state and federal governments to increase grants and low interest loans. We as a society gave a de facto response that encouraged schools to continue with their pricing behavior. Now society has started to balk, and some (very few) schools have started to respond by finding ways to lower tuition rates.

Funny little story about this. My Senior Thesis professor was the economic department chairman. During one of our 1:1 meetings, he told me about the perverse method of how he's rated by the school for performing his job. His entire rating as chair was based upon reviews given of him to the university by the other professors in the department - the people who report to him. So his job was to do any little thing he can to placate his subordinates, which he then said in a plainer language: it means that his job was to find ways to increase the annual cost of running his department. And he said that almost all the universities where he'd worked were structured the same way.

Maybe the state's contribution should have went up with the demand? I think it should have. If the state wants to fix it all they have to do is change the education and job training model so they can get good workers good jobs. It's in their best interest for their tax base and the health of their state.

The Republicans are interested in none of that.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

The problem is every corporation wanted people to have a degree and there's no way to move up into any managerial position without one. Also if I had to guess WA state has decent labor laws for private sector unions as well that allow them to get that kind of wage, which, $54000 probably isn't that great in Seattle where the cost of living is astronomical (it's basically like making $41,000 in Minneapolis). So they can complain about the labor shortage all they want but really they need to do a better job of enticing people to go that route and essentially forgo getting a degree (which even with its cost drastically improves your earning potential). The other thing too is that having more people go to college has side benefits for society as well and its benefits aren't solely related to getting a job.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Maybe the state's contribution should have went up with the demand? I think it should have.

...and operational cost increases. Universities aren't strictly teaching white, US born students using just a 30 yo text book in a 100% danger and hacking-free environment.
 
From what I can tell Germany isn't completely free but the cost is vastly lower than it is here, something like 1500 euros per semester for non-EU students. I assume it's cheaper for those who are from the EU. Pretty sure the Nordic countries are mostly free too if you're from there.

Kids from here can go to Germany tuition free if they agree to stay and work there for a couple years.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Operational costs have increased at all universities across the globe. Oddly enough they're still affordable to attend in other countries.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Operational costs have increased at all universities across the globe. Oddly enough they're still affordable to attend in other countries.

Of course, it couldn't be that those states' contributions went up with demand and costs...as was the exact point.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

My favorite headline from today.

Trump administration moves to make it harder for defrauded students to erase debt

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...se-debt/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.230cf2ab46a5

Why do people vote for these clowns? Seriously. The Catholic thing? The Evangelical thing? Really, is that what you want, a government based on your religion. Is that why people vote in ways that are destroying this country from outside and inside?

jfc.

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos moved Wednesday to make it harder for students who say they were defrauded by colleges to erase their debts, rolling back Obama-era regulations that for-profit colleges saw as threatening their survival.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

My favorite headline from today.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...se-debt/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.230cf2ab46a5

Why do people vote for these clowns? Seriously. The Catholic thing? The Evangelical thing? Really, is that what you want, a government based on your religion. Is that why people vote in ways that are destroying this country from outside and inside?

jfc.

Chump and the rest of the treasonous money laundering cult are making a high stakes bet that the people screwed by this policy won't vote. Time will tell but all of their policies are meant to appeal to older generally retired whities who most likely aren't dealing with student loans, either for themselves or their kids who are in their 40's by now.
 
I don't know how it looks today, but not all German children are permitted access to higher education beyond a trade school or their equivalent of our AA degree. That's how it was in the 90s at least, when your schooling track was dictated by placement tests given in primary schools and later in their versions of high schools - trade school kids were separated into different schools from kids who tested with the ability to attend and be successful at a university. Great Britain pays for everything up to, again our equivalent of, an AA degree, and then it's entirely on the students and their families. That appears to be the most common process through much of the world.


Meh. The German method sounds like a sure fire way for kids with learning disabilities such as dyslexia or ADHD to fall further behind the 8 ball than they already have.... unless Germany has also invested a lot to be sure these kids are identified, receive the proper interventions and are taught properly.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

I think you’d be surprised at what kids with learning disabilities can do with proper support.
 
I think you’d be surprised at what kids with learning disabilities can do with proper support.

Exactly, which (for the most part) they are not getting in the US public school systems. If they are getting the proper support in Germany that’s great, but if not, they are probably getting labeled as not qualified for college of the decision is made by standardized tests.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Schools aren’t going to be able to provide everything a child needs if they have learning disabilities. That has to come external from schools.

And I don’t see how the German system penalizes kids. It finds areas they are best suited. If kids with learning disabilities can make it, they make it. If they can’t, then they should also find career opportunities that better suit them.

Additionally, we have protections in place for a number of these kinds of situations that could easily be remolded for a new system. On the GRE, if you have certain learning disabilities you can get untimed tests instead of the standard test.
 
Schools aren’t going to be able to provide everything a child needs if they have learning disabilities. That has to come external from schools.

And I don’t see how the German system penalizes kids. It finds areas they are best suited. If kids with learning disabilities can make it, they make it. If they can’t, then they should also find career opportunities that better suit them.

Additionally, we have protections in place for a number of these kinds of situations that could easily be remolded for a new system. On the GRE, if you have certain learning disabilities you can get untimed tests instead of the standard test.

That’s just it, IF taught properly most of them can and will “make it”, the problem is if they are labeling some kids as “not as smart” because they haven’t been taught properly.

So this all sounds to me as if the rich kids with learning differences whose parents can afford the needed support will make it, and the poor kids won’t.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Restrict what % of tuition can be paid for via loans/grants (scholarships excluded) and you'll see tuition rates drop lest enrollment plummet.
 
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