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2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
- Thread starter MissThundercat
- Start date
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St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
When I attended SCSU, my first year of tuition was $5,600/academic year. Per SCSU's site, that same academic year now costs $18,360. Adjusting for inflation figures provided by the Minneapolis Fed, SCSU should cost roughly $9,209/year now. Paying for school is far more difficult for today's youth and their family than it was when I was (or you were) in school.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
If she announces she's running I'll take the "Tiger Woods" bet in a heartbeat: I take my name (in this case HRC), you get the field, as the D candidate in 2020.
And frankly, when some of the top contenders are Sanders, Warren, and Biden, HRC fits right in.
If she announces she's running I'll take the "Tiger Woods" bet in a heartbeat: I take my name (in this case HRC), you get the field, as the D candidate in 2020.
And frankly, when some of the top contenders are Sanders, Warren, and Biden, HRC fits right in.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
This. And my kids are doing it now not when St. Clown did it. Thanks America.
This. And my kids are doing it now not when St. Clown did it. Thanks America.
ericredaxe
Veteran
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
I don't disagree that for the most part, college costs have gone out of control. Using your numbers though, should the discussion be about "free" college? Or should it be more along the lines of "how do we bring college costs under control so that tuition at a school like SCSU is about $9,200 per year"?
I don't disagree that for the most part, college costs have gone out of control. Using your numbers though, should the discussion be about "free" college? Or should it be more along the lines of "how do we bring college costs under control so that tuition at a school like SCSU is about $9,200 per year"?
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
LOL
Fine. Good luck with that. Give us your proposal.
LOL
Fine. Good luck with that. Give us your proposal.
ericredaxe
Veteran
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
Why is that more laughable than saying that college should be free?
Why is that more laughable than saying that college should be free?
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
Basically, higher ed is a business. Every year, it goes like this:
*Raise revenues - seek out more private donations and endowments from individuals and corporations, get more research grants, get more state and federal money, increase tuition
and/or
*Cut expenditures - no more new buildings or renovations, cut research expenditures, cut scholarships, cut faculty, staff, and admin pay, etc. Then, watch as all your best people leave in droves.
Basically, higher ed is a business. Every year, it goes like this:
*Raise revenues - seek out more private donations and endowments from individuals and corporations, get more research grants, get more state and federal money, increase tuition
and/or
*Cut expenditures - no more new buildings or renovations, cut research expenditures, cut scholarships, cut faculty, staff, and admin pay, etc. Then, watch as all your best people leave in droves.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
It’s not. Trade or community college should be free. But we also need to attack costs from the other side as well.
Tuition is out of control. Time to reign these schools in.
It’s not. Trade or community college should be free. But we also need to attack costs from the other side as well.
Tuition is out of control. Time to reign these schools in.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
And that's why I laughed. You know it's already been posted in this thread and 100% correct that the States used to pick up a lot of the tab. The reason this is happening more than anything is the Republicans shut that spigot off.
And that's why I laughed. You know it's already been posted in this thread and 100% correct that the States used to pick up a lot of the tab. The reason this is happening more than anything is the Republicans shut that spigot off.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
Sorry, but this is just normal ranty barking until you have stats to back it up.
Have the states been decreasing funding proportionally to the increase in tuition? I doubt it.
Fade is 100% correct.
Sorry, but this is just normal ranty barking until you have stats to back it up.
Have the states been decreasing funding proportionally to the increase in tuition? I doubt it.
Fade is 100% correct.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Yup. Tuition is up cause schools know they can charge it and want the $$$
They think being an administrator or management allows you the same salary you'd get in a private business. Not a non-profit. Filters down (except of course to the common worker).
When gov hands out money people lose sight of what they pay. Very few students pay full retail.
Same as when health cost jump cause many patients just hand over a $20 co-pay. Hard to roll back prices (unless you is Walmart)
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
Yes, Fade is 100% correct. It's also 100% correct that subsidizing higher education and keeping those workers HERE is good fiscal policy. Giving money away to billionaire's is not. That's the change that has occurred over the years.
Yes, Fade is 100% correct. It's also 100% correct that subsidizing higher education and keeping those workers HERE is good fiscal policy. Giving money away to billionaire's is not. That's the change that has occurred over the years.
Agree 100%
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
Even during the Pawlenty years, the State of MN increased its funding to MnSCU and the U of MN schools at a rate that exceeded inflation. The problem hasn't been funding, the problem has been on the side of the universities, and yes, our culture in general. The demand curve for four-year degrees had been shifting rightward along the supply curve for a long time, starting in the 80s, and continuing until the last five or so years. Rightward shifts in the demand curve always correlate to higher prices. Universities noted that trend and increased their tuition and fees to account for that shift.
While I think colleges and universities take the lion's share of the blame in higher ed. pricing, we've enabled it by pushing the state and federal governments to increase grants and low interest loans. We as a society gave a de facto response that encouraged schools to continue with their pricing behavior. Now society has started to balk, and some (very few) schools have started to respond by finding ways to lower tuition rates.
Funny little story about this. My Senior Thesis professor was the economic department chairman. During one of our 1:1 meetings, he told me about the perverse method of how he's rated by the school for performing his job. His entire rating as chair was based upon reviews given of him to the university by the other professors in the department - the people who report to him. So his job was to do any little thing he can to placate his subordinates, which he then said in a plainer language: it means that his job was to find ways to increase the annual cost of running his department. And he said that almost all the universities where he'd worked were structured the same way.
Even during the Pawlenty years, the State of MN increased its funding to MnSCU and the U of MN schools at a rate that exceeded inflation. The problem hasn't been funding, the problem has been on the side of the universities, and yes, our culture in general. The demand curve for four-year degrees had been shifting rightward along the supply curve for a long time, starting in the 80s, and continuing until the last five or so years. Rightward shifts in the demand curve always correlate to higher prices. Universities noted that trend and increased their tuition and fees to account for that shift.
While I think colleges and universities take the lion's share of the blame in higher ed. pricing, we've enabled it by pushing the state and federal governments to increase grants and low interest loans. We as a society gave a de facto response that encouraged schools to continue with their pricing behavior. Now society has started to balk, and some (very few) schools have started to respond by finding ways to lower tuition rates.
Funny little story about this. My Senior Thesis professor was the economic department chairman. During one of our 1:1 meetings, he told me about the perverse method of how he's rated by the school for performing his job. His entire rating as chair was based upon reviews given of him to the university by the other professors in the department - the people who report to him. So his job was to do any little thing he can to placate his subordinates, which he then said in a plainer language: it means that his job was to find ways to increase the annual cost of running his department. And he said that almost all the universities where he'd worked were structured the same way.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
Do people not think the demand for higher education went up in other industrialized nations that pay for their constituents' higher ed?
Do people not think the demand for higher education went up in other industrialized nations that pay for their constituents' higher ed?
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
I don't know how it looks today, but not all German children are permitted access to higher education beyond a trade school or their equivalent of our AA degree. That's how it was in the 90s at least, when your schooling track was dictated by placement tests given in primary schools and later in their versions of high schools - trade school kids were separated into different schools from kids who tested with the ability to attend and be successful at a university. Great Britain pays for everything up to, again our equivalent of, an AA degree, and then it's entirely on the students and their families. That appears to be the most common process through much of the world.
I don't know how it looks today, but not all German children are permitted access to higher education beyond a trade school or their equivalent of our AA degree. That's how it was in the 90s at least, when your schooling track was dictated by placement tests given in primary schools and later in their versions of high schools - trade school kids were separated into different schools from kids who tested with the ability to attend and be successful at a university. Great Britain pays for everything up to, again our equivalent of, an AA degree, and then it's entirely on the students and their families. That appears to be the most common process through much of the world.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
From what I can tell Germany isn't completely free but the cost is vastly lower than it is here, something like 1500 euros per semester for non-EU students. I assume it's cheaper for those who are from the EU. Pretty sure the Nordic countries are mostly free too if you're from there.
From what I can tell Germany isn't completely free but the cost is vastly lower than it is here, something like 1500 euros per semester for non-EU students. I assume it's cheaper for those who are from the EU. Pretty sure the Nordic countries are mostly free too if you're from there.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
New York has already started implemented this. Curious how it turns out but we'll have a good case study in time for the 2020 elections (nothing is going to happen with Chump in office) sorta like how Mass was the model for the ACA and same sex marriage.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/10/pf/college/suny-cuny-tuition-free-college/index.html
New York has already started implemented this. Curious how it turns out but we'll have a good case study in time for the 2020 elections (nothing is going to happen with Chump in office) sorta like how Mass was the model for the ACA and same sex marriage.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/10/pf/college/suny-cuny-tuition-free-college/index.html
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo
And the thing is it doesnt have to be a catch all. It can be capped in many different ways to make sure it isnt just a money pit or whatever. We have already talked about public/private but there are other ways.
No matter what anyone says this is going to be a slow moving process, so might as well start small and grow the program. See what works and go from there.
And the thing is it doesnt have to be a catch all. It can be capped in many different ways to make sure it isnt just a money pit or whatever. We have already talked about public/private but there are other ways.
No matter what anyone says this is going to be a slow moving process, so might as well start small and grow the program. See what works and go from there.
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