But there is a downfall in the OOC schedule. 2 against OSU, 2 against Miami, 2 with Western, add in the 28 conference games (right now) and you're at 34 games. That leaves room for one more series after one trip to Alaska. I believe I've seen that's against RIT this upcoming season. It really limits the options OOC.
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2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
- Thread starter gfmorris
- Start date
gfmorris
New member
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
As with real estate, location helps.
I can't even argue that being in the WCHA has helped UAH's NC schedule, because a lot of the teams that we played OOC were big teams that now won't play us or ... teams already in this league. The quality of competition is up, though, even with those dam-building rodents still around.
And Dave, I'm guessing that any drop in games has to come with an interlock or an NCAA cap on the amount of conference games that you can play. I'm aware that both of these are unlikely, but those windmills need tilting.
GFM
As with real estate, location helps.
I can't even argue that being in the WCHA has helped UAH's NC schedule, because a lot of the teams that we played OOC were big teams that now won't play us or ... teams already in this league. The quality of competition is up, though, even with those dam-building rodents still around.And Dave, I'm guessing that any drop in games has to come with an interlock or an NCAA cap on the amount of conference games that you can play. I'm aware that both of these are unlikely, but those windmills need tilting.
GFM
We only have one return game against RIT at home. Probably will have one more game against an AHA team.
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
Geoff, don't go off with the impression that the WCHA is the only league with defensive hockey. The Frozen 4 has 3 teams who play the Tampa style, neutral zone trap similar to BGSU. And looking at the regionals, more than half did as well. There were a few up and down teams. Duluth, Michigan, BC, but the majority play defensive hockey.
Geoff, don't go off with the impression that the WCHA is the only league with defensive hockey. The Frozen 4 has 3 teams who play the Tampa style, neutral zone trap similar to BGSU. And looking at the regionals, more than half did as well. There were a few up and down teams. Duluth, Michigan, BC, but the majority play defensive hockey.
gfmorris
New member
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
I guess the difference between our teams and some of those is the quality of the skaters who aren't checkers. Defensive hockey is fine with me — I don't need 7-5 games to be interested. But the muggings that we regularly see in the WCHA need to go away.
GFM
I guess the difference between our teams and some of those is the quality of the skaters who aren't checkers. Defensive hockey is fine with me — I don't need 7-5 games to be interested. But the muggings that we regularly see in the WCHA need to go away.
GFM
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
Any objective person would say the new WCHA is a pretty mediocre league, all in all. They'd say that about the Big10 too. Proof: the WCHA's record against other leagues the past two years is mediocre at best. Their represenatation in the polls that count and the tournament itself also show mediocrity.
The league is competitive, sort of, in that a goup of mediocre teams will be competitive against each other. However, there's a big difference between the best couple of teams and the rest of the league, so far. The new league certainly hasn't raised the fortunes of the Alaska teams and UAH, and not so much for Lake State and Bemidji either. Those continue to be pretty mediocre, dare I say poor, teams?
And the better teams in the WCHA haven't shown themselves to be better over two years, shown by the tournament selections. They wouldn't be competitive in the elite leagues from year to year.
Don't get me wrong: I love the small town teams and love it when one of them competes at the national level. It just aint' happenin' for the WCHA teams these days though.
Let's be honest: the WCHA is the leftovers after the NCHC cherry picked the better talent and better supported teams from the real WCHA and the CCHA. Mankato has had some time in the sunshine, but not this year. We couldn't even get two teams in the tournament when a low ranked team won the league title.
I fear that the fortunes of those second-tier teams will have difficulty recruiting now that they're in a medicre league. Fairbanks, for example, appears to have had awful recruiting the past two years, I suspect because kids aren't impressed at the league. The CCHA was a top tier league and attracted the diamonds in the rough (which are the kids the second tier teams have a chance at). Not any more. I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but it looks to me like the bottom 3-4 teams of the new WCHA aren't getting better, they're getting worse.
When the WCHA gets two teams in the frozen four - or even two or three consistently in the tournament - like NCHC or like the other leagues (including the old, real WCHA) have done from time to time over the past decade or so, we can whine about the biased media - but I doubt the media will be biased against the league if it's objectively top tier. It isn't.
Any objective person would say the new WCHA is a pretty mediocre league, all in all. They'd say that about the Big10 too. Proof: the WCHA's record against other leagues the past two years is mediocre at best. Their represenatation in the polls that count and the tournament itself also show mediocrity.
The league is competitive, sort of, in that a goup of mediocre teams will be competitive against each other. However, there's a big difference between the best couple of teams and the rest of the league, so far. The new league certainly hasn't raised the fortunes of the Alaska teams and UAH, and not so much for Lake State and Bemidji either. Those continue to be pretty mediocre, dare I say poor, teams?
And the better teams in the WCHA haven't shown themselves to be better over two years, shown by the tournament selections. They wouldn't be competitive in the elite leagues from year to year.
Don't get me wrong: I love the small town teams and love it when one of them competes at the national level. It just aint' happenin' for the WCHA teams these days though.
Let's be honest: the WCHA is the leftovers after the NCHC cherry picked the better talent and better supported teams from the real WCHA and the CCHA. Mankato has had some time in the sunshine, but not this year. We couldn't even get two teams in the tournament when a low ranked team won the league title.
I fear that the fortunes of those second-tier teams will have difficulty recruiting now that they're in a medicre league. Fairbanks, for example, appears to have had awful recruiting the past two years, I suspect because kids aren't impressed at the league. The CCHA was a top tier league and attracted the diamonds in the rough (which are the kids the second tier teams have a chance at). Not any more. I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but it looks to me like the bottom 3-4 teams of the new WCHA aren't getting better, they're getting worse.
When the WCHA gets two teams in the frozen four - or even two or three consistently in the tournament - like NCHC or like the other leagues (including the old, real WCHA) have done from time to time over the past decade or so, we can whine about the biased media - but I doubt the media will be biased against the league if it's objectively top tier. It isn't.
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purpleinnebraska
Well-known member
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
Amen! A lot of teams -at all levels, including the NHL- play a "defense first" game, and employ a trap to varying levels, but when there's clutching, grabbing, holding, and tackling going on all game long, and when a team that grabs a 1-0 1st period lead goes into chip and change mode, you have an unappealing mess.
Amen! A lot of teams -at all levels, including the NHL- play a "defense first" game, and employ a trap to varying levels, but when there's clutching, grabbing, holding, and tackling going on all game long, and when a team that grabs a 1-0 1st period lead goes into chip and change mode, you have an unappealing mess.
bravohankins
Registered User
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
T
BG actually plays the Barry Trotz "Heavy" system that the Capitals now use. Its not really a trap, but playing "North" with "big body" forwards. There are several recent articles about the system and BG's use of it.....I'll try to find them and link them here.
T
BG actually plays the Barry Trotz "Heavy" system that the Capitals now use. Its not really a trap, but playing "North" with "big body" forwards. There are several recent articles about the system and BG's use of it.....I'll try to find them and link them here.
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
I totally disagree with this, though I will admit this is the perception of the casual fan. But let me take your points.
Mediocre, well most of College hockey is mediocre so, well you said it, but that applies to an awful lot of teams. Poor, LSSU really turned it up as the season went on. They were not poor by the end of the year. And they ARE getting better, ask a laker fan. Bemidji poor?, they tied UND. They won some big games in the North Star cup late in the year, , that's not poor, but look where they finished in the league. UAH ? nope they beat Mankato at the end of the year. And they beat CC too, so I'm not buying it.
The top teams wouldn't be competitive, ? I think Tech could have competed with anyone,Tech's OOC record was pretty good actually and obviously Ferris was competitive. I went to the NMU vs Michigan game and it was very competitive as well.. so sure we have our issues but overall we have a league that can compete and our record vs the ECAC proves it.
I totally disagree with this, though I will admit this is the perception of the casual fan. But let me take your points.
Mediocre, well most of College hockey is mediocre so, well you said it, but that applies to an awful lot of teams. Poor, LSSU really turned it up as the season went on. They were not poor by the end of the year. And they ARE getting better, ask a laker fan. Bemidji poor?, they tied UND. They won some big games in the North Star cup late in the year, , that's not poor, but look where they finished in the league. UAH ? nope they beat Mankato at the end of the year. And they beat CC too, so I'm not buying it.
The top teams wouldn't be competitive, ? I think Tech could have competed with anyone,Tech's OOC record was pretty good actually and obviously Ferris was competitive. I went to the NMU vs Michigan game and it was very competitive as well.. so sure we have our issues but overall we have a league that can compete and our record vs the ECAC proves it.
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
But imho, a trap is a system that tries to cause the puck to be turned over in the neutral zone. No it's not the same system that the Florida Panthers play, or Ferris, but it's still a neutral zone turnover type system. Qpac plays it, Denver plays it, UND plays it, etc, etc, etc.They call it a transition system.
Sure, when the team is even or behind they forecheck heavy, and try to keep the puck in the offensive end, often getting possession up near the blue line, but once ahead it's a sit back and wait for mistakes system.I'm sure there are some individual wrinkles in each schools use of it but I would not characterize it as a traditional up and down system like Minnesota or Michigan plays at all.
That would be good.
But imho, a trap is a system that tries to cause the puck to be turned over in the neutral zone. No it's not the same system that the Florida Panthers play, or Ferris, but it's still a neutral zone turnover type system. Qpac plays it, Denver plays it, UND plays it, etc, etc, etc.They call it a transition system.
Sure, when the team is even or behind they forecheck heavy, and try to keep the puck in the offensive end, often getting possession up near the blue line, but once ahead it's a sit back and wait for mistakes system.I'm sure there are some individual wrinkles in each schools use of it but I would not characterize it as a traditional up and down system like Minnesota or Michigan plays at all.
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
Exactly, turning into NCAA Football 2.0.
Exactly, turning into NCAA Football 2.0.
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
I'll change my mind when the WCHA consistently (consistently!) gets two teams in the NCAA based on year-end rankings... as opposed to one team getting in by rankings, and the second, a low ranked team, getting in by winning the tournament. A top tier league will have a couple of teams in the top 14 or 15 rankings every year.
This year, the only team that had a chance was the auto bid team and there was no team that qualified other than that. That's not a strong league. We'll see, I hope I'm wrong
As for "casual fan". Really, that's your take on an opinion like mine? I've been watching hockey since I was tiny, played since about 1965 and attend highschool, college and NHL games whenever I can, at least a dozen games a year in 2-3 different cities.
I don't disagree that teams are competitive with high level teams in specific, isolated games. But that does not make a competitive league. Hell, Anchorage has beaten the best of the old WCHA in away games, but that didn't make UAA a good team by any stretch of the imagination. IT just means that a poor team can beat a good team when the puck bounces right and/or the other team is just not doing it that night.
I'll change my mind when the WCHA consistently (consistently!) gets two teams in the NCAA based on year-end rankings... as opposed to one team getting in by rankings, and the second, a low ranked team, getting in by winning the tournament. A top tier league will have a couple of teams in the top 14 or 15 rankings every year.
This year, the only team that had a chance was the auto bid team and there was no team that qualified other than that. That's not a strong league. We'll see, I hope I'm wrong
As for "casual fan". Really, that's your take on an opinion like mine? I've been watching hockey since I was tiny, played since about 1965 and attend highschool, college and NHL games whenever I can, at least a dozen games a year in 2-3 different cities.
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
The shift of power has been attempted, and it might take a few years, but IMO you'll see separation, true separation, in the next 5 years or so. Some schools have the money, others don't. It will be less noticeable compared to bouncyball and football, since hockey is a niche sport, but you'll see it.
WI made (seemingly) a HUGE stride with their new coaching staff, despite Barry not caring about the program. MN, by most accounts, had a "down" year, and they were *that close* to making the tourney. Some were even calling for an effigy. MI also had a down year according to the diehards.
Expectations are VERY high for these schools year after year after year. Their .500 season is a tragedy, whereas for a smaller school might be a boon.
The shift of power has been attempted, and it might take a few years, but IMO you'll see separation, true separation, in the next 5 years or so. Some schools have the money, others don't. It will be less noticeable compared to bouncyball and football, since hockey is a niche sport, but you'll see it.
WI made (seemingly) a HUGE stride with their new coaching staff, despite Barry not caring about the program. MN, by most accounts, had a "down" year, and they were *that close* to making the tourney. Some were even calling for an effigy. MI also had a down year according to the diehards.
Expectations are VERY high for these schools year after year after year. Their .500 season is a tragedy, whereas for a smaller school might be a boon.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first time the WCHA didn't do that...they got 2 teams in 2014, and 2 (almost 3) last year, none as 4-seeds. They had a bad year...they could have had 2 teams this year very easily but the chips didn't fall that way.
gfmorris
New member
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
I don't really argue to give-and-take with that gentleman. I'm thinking that he doesn't get the idea that one datum cannot be used for a valid trendline.
GFM
I don't really argue to give-and-take with that gentleman. I'm thinking that he doesn't get the idea that one datum cannot be used for a valid trendline.
GFM
blackswampboy
New member
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
interesting topic. guess what you're calling a trap would cover the Trotz right wing lock, as well as the Tampa 1-3-1 trap and the old 1-2-2. but not all traps are created equal... would like to know more about who's using which defensive forechecking systems.
so yeah, traps that don't rely on all the clutching and grabbing don't bother me either.
interesting topic. guess what you're calling a trap would cover the Trotz right wing lock, as well as the Tampa 1-3-1 trap and the old 1-2-2. but not all traps are created equal... would like to know more about who's using which defensive forechecking systems.
so yeah, traps that don't rely on all the clutching and grabbing don't bother me either.
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manurespreader
Still upright
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
Well yes and no. I agree mostly but.... When a trap team is ahead it still does rely on it, and when behind no. To wit. If a trap team is ahead, suddenly they have 4 guys in the neutral zone, they forecheck 1, or in some cases zero, have 4 across the blue line, and the goal of all that is not just to steal the puck, but make it real hard for the other team to enter the zone in any kind of fast way. So you get a lot of interference, hooks etc. Which, ta daa, results in turnovers. And the converse, you get picks run by the offensive team. Wisconsin runs tons of picks, especially on the power play.. Also you get the other team dumping it in because they do not want to get caught on the wrong side of the puck and having the trap team with an odd man rush.( and you get a lot of cross ice passes which try to catch a player cheating towards the strong side and get a better shot at zone entry)
So yeah it depends... they definitely find ways to slow things down. That's why you see all these stretch passes like what Ferris did for the second goal vs Denver. And once a trap team gets the lead, it's boring hockey with lots of back and forth in the neutral zone.
I mean discussing it here is not changing it, but Geoff seems to think the WCHA does it more than most and I disagree.
As far as who runs what forecheck system, I don't watch enough to say for certain and it changes anyway. I know that some teams will forecheck differently as the game goes on just to throw a new wrinkle in. But Tech for instance really had problems with the UAA forecheck in December. UAA not only forechecked two guys, but they were both on the puck carrier, not taking turns like some teams do.
It cut down on the time that the defenseman had to do something with the puck and forced mistakes which eventually resulted in turnovers or long periods of offensive zone time. Denver did the same thing at the end of the game vs Ferris. Once the score was tied, Suddenly the forecheck was real aggressive and they got Ferris out of position and a turnover.
QPAc not only does all this but they really stretch the rules in the offensive zone by hindering the goalie, running into him repeatedly, interfering with the defensemen or running picks to slow a defenseman from getting out to the puck in the corner etc.
Well yes and no. I agree mostly but.... When a trap team is ahead it still does rely on it, and when behind no. To wit. If a trap team is ahead, suddenly they have 4 guys in the neutral zone, they forecheck 1, or in some cases zero, have 4 across the blue line, and the goal of all that is not just to steal the puck, but make it real hard for the other team to enter the zone in any kind of fast way. So you get a lot of interference, hooks etc. Which, ta daa, results in turnovers. And the converse, you get picks run by the offensive team. Wisconsin runs tons of picks, especially on the power play.. Also you get the other team dumping it in because they do not want to get caught on the wrong side of the puck and having the trap team with an odd man rush.( and you get a lot of cross ice passes which try to catch a player cheating towards the strong side and get a better shot at zone entry)
So yeah it depends... they definitely find ways to slow things down. That's why you see all these stretch passes like what Ferris did for the second goal vs Denver. And once a trap team gets the lead, it's boring hockey with lots of back and forth in the neutral zone.
I mean discussing it here is not changing it, but Geoff seems to think the WCHA does it more than most and I disagree.
As far as who runs what forecheck system, I don't watch enough to say for certain and it changes anyway. I know that some teams will forecheck differently as the game goes on just to throw a new wrinkle in. But Tech for instance really had problems with the UAA forecheck in December. UAA not only forechecked two guys, but they were both on the puck carrier, not taking turns like some teams do.
It cut down on the time that the defenseman had to do something with the puck and forced mistakes which eventually resulted in turnovers or long periods of offensive zone time. Denver did the same thing at the end of the game vs Ferris. Once the score was tied, Suddenly the forecheck was real aggressive and they got Ferris out of position and a turnover.
QPAc not only does all this but they really stretch the rules in the offensive zone by hindering the goalie, running into him repeatedly, interfering with the defensemen or running picks to slow a defenseman from getting out to the puck in the corner etc.
gfmorris
New member
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
It's not that I think that the WCHA does it more. I think that the WCHA officiating enables it more. I think that you can stage 3-4 guys in the neutral zone and force turnovers without mauling guys. I think that you can also chip and chase and not get hauled down / slowed up two seconds after you release the puck, which is something that I regularly see in WCHA games. If the guy doesn't have the puck, leave him be.
GFM
It's not that I think that the WCHA does it more. I think that the WCHA officiating enables it more. I think that you can stage 3-4 guys in the neutral zone and force turnovers without mauling guys. I think that you can also chip and chase and not get hauled down / slowed up two seconds after you release the puck, which is something that I regularly see in WCHA games. If the guy doesn't have the puck, leave him be.
GFM
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
Completely agree, I think its been a problem for WCHA officiating for a long time that they let more things go, which results in more uncalled infractions which slows down the teams that want to play faster.
John J. MacInnes
Coach Emeritus
Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris
Almost every team has some form of a "trap" or "lock" that they will use at some point, some much more than others. What the WCHA lacks is the magic bullet that traps and locks have the hardest time defending - that's the puck-carrying defenseman.
A D who can carry the puck through the neutral zone forces trapping/locking defenders to leave their assignments. That essentially creates a numerical mismatch in the neutral zone in favor of the offense rather than the defense. When a puck-carrying defenseman can not only draw defenders to him but then also make the first pass to the now open teammate, the lock/trap is sprung and is no longer effective. Many teams try to beat the trap by making quick long first passes, which plays right into the hands of the trap/lock strategy. The key is to outnumber the defense between the blue lines, which you can't do if your defensemen are still way back in their own zone where they made the pass from.
Of course, the effective puck-carrying defenseman in college hockey is a scarce commodity. Any team who can find or develop one is going to be a force in the transition game, which the WCHA lacks.
Almost every team has some form of a "trap" or "lock" that they will use at some point, some much more than others. What the WCHA lacks is the magic bullet that traps and locks have the hardest time defending - that's the puck-carrying defenseman.
A D who can carry the puck through the neutral zone forces trapping/locking defenders to leave their assignments. That essentially creates a numerical mismatch in the neutral zone in favor of the offense rather than the defense. When a puck-carrying defenseman can not only draw defenders to him but then also make the first pass to the now open teammate, the lock/trap is sprung and is no longer effective. Many teams try to beat the trap by making quick long first passes, which plays right into the hands of the trap/lock strategy. The key is to outnumber the defense between the blue lines, which you can't do if your defensemen are still way back in their own zone where they made the pass from.
Of course, the effective puck-carrying defenseman in college hockey is a scarce commodity. Any team who can find or develop one is going to be a force in the transition game, which the WCHA lacks.