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2016 Pairwise Calculator

Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

So what combination of wins/losses gets UW to the 2 spot? I think having the last change in the semi's is huge.
UW needs to advance further than UM. If UM loses in the semis, UW has to at least make it to the finals. If UM wins in the semis, UW has to beat them in the finals.

I haven't double checked because I don't have the spreadsheet open yet (I'm at work) but I'm almost positive that since the Gophers have a tougher opponent in the semifinals that if UM and UW both lose in the semis, the Gophers will get the #2 spot.
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

UW needs to advance further than UM. If UM loses in the semis, UW has to at least make it to the finals. If UM wins in the semis, UW has to beat them in the finals.

I haven't double checked because I don't have the spreadsheet open yet (I'm at work) but I'm almost positive that since the Gophers have a tougher opponent in the semifinals that if UM and UW both lose in the semis, the Gophers will get the #2 spot.

I still can't get the sheet at BCInterruption to work, but it's worth noting that, despite Minnesota playing a tougher opponent this weekend, Wisconsin's edge in RPI actually grew. So, there may be permutations that involve both losing in the semis that have enough other moving parts to keep Wisconsin at #2. However, it would likely be with an edge small enough that the committee could override it if they really wanted.

Edit: As I think about it a bit more, I'm pretty sure I know what happened, and it means that we have more information about just where the cutoff in wins excluded from RPI is. Of Wisconsin's non-conference opponents, Dartmouth didn't play, Lindenwood lost two of three, and Providence got swept; I think it's safe to assume that all of the Badgers' games against these teams were excluded.

Of Minnesota's non-conference games, Yale didn't play, Penn State won twice, and St. Cloud lost twice. If Penn State's games were counted, Minnesota's RPI would have gone up, so my guess is that they were dropped. But I don't think the St. Cloud games were, probably from either Minnesota or Wisconsin's RPI. The fact that Minnesota played the Huskies one extra time would cause their RPI to drop a bit more than Wisconsin's did from St. Cloud's record going down.

Of course, if both the Gophers and the Badgers lose in the semis, neither game would be dropped from their RPI, so Minnesota would get a boost in Opponents' Winning Percentage. I have no idea whether it would be enough.
 
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Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

So, there may be permutations that involve both losing in the semis that have enough other moving parts to keep Wisconsin at #2.
I just ran as many scenarios as I could figure out with UM and UW both losing in the semifinals and I can't get UW to 2nd, although I can get them 0.0001 behind...

That's with:
NU-BC-BC
ND-UMD-UMD
CoU-SLU-CoU
PSU-RMU-PSU

It's possible there may be one or two scenarios that get UW to 2nd that I might have missed. Serious offer: I will buy a drink at the WFF for the first person who can find a scenario that puts UW in 2nd with both UM and UW losing in the semis!

However, it would likely be with an edge small enough that the committee could override it if they really wanted.
I doubt it. The teams split the season series and both teams went undefeated in their dog**** out of conference schedule, so I think the committee will just stick with the RPI. They haven't shown much of a desire to deviate from PWR/RPI in the past unless there's something really, really clearly separating the teams.
 
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Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

we have more information about just where the cutoff in wins excluded from RPI is.
Oh I can tell you that:

The only games included in BC's RPI are the games against Northeastern.

The games being excluded for Wisconsin are the wins against Ohio State, Mankato, Providence, Lindenwood, and Dartmouth.

The games being excluded for Minnesota are the wins against Ohio State, Mankato, and Penn State
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

I just ran as many scenarios as I could figure out with UM and UW both losing in the semifinals and I can't get UW to 2nd, although I can get them 0.0001 behind...

That's with:
NU-BC-BC
ND-UMD-UMD
CoU-SLU-CoU
PSU-RMU-PSU

It's possible there may be one or two scenarios that get UW to 2nd that I might have missed. Serious offer: I will buy a drink at the WFF for the first person who can find a scenario that puts UW in 2nd with both UM and UW losing in the semis!

There are only 1024 possible combinations.
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

The games being excluded for Wisconsin are the wins against Ohio State, Mankato, Providence, Lindenwood, and Dartmouth.

The games being excluded for Minnesota are the wins against Ohio State, Mankato, and Penn State
Is that in your projections or with actual results to date? Because if it is the latter, then it is just another example of RPI being unable to make any sense. If you throw out all those games, then the only thing that prevents Wisconsin and Minnesota from being identical is that a) they played each other; b) we are including two extra wins for UM over Yale, and one more win over St. Cloud State. In theory, neither of these should be hurting the Gophers, because results that hurt are supposed to be dropped, and these weren't. That means that the reason UW > UM in RPI is that UW had four games against a "more valuable" opponent in UM. Thank goodness for Rensselaer, because that means there is at least one RPI that I like.
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

Is that in your projections or with actual results to date?
It's actual results to date.

Worth noting, by the way --

Minnesota's RPI before removing bad wins is .6364
Wisconsin's RPI before removing bad wins is .6281.

If you throw out all those games, then the only thing that prevents Wisconsin and Minnesota from being identical is that a) they played each other; b) we are including two extra wins for UM over Yale, and one more win over St. Cloud State.
The Yale games are having a minimal effect on Minnesota's RPI. Minnesota's RPI before QWB is .6493. The wins against Yale are only counting for .6496, virtually identical and a couple extraneous results from being dropped from the RPI entirely.

The extra win against SCSU is counting for .6624. Helping a bit, yes, but it's only one game.

What's really driving this is the UM/UW head to head.

UM's "Game RPIs" for the games against Wisco are:
2 W vs. UW = .7500 -- (Wisco's W% = .9531, OW% = .4810)
2 L vs. UW = .4500

UW's "Game RPIs" for the games against Wisco are:
2 W vs. UM = .7668 (Minny's W% = .9516, OW% = .5184)
2 L vs. UM = .4668

So -- and if you weren't annoyed already, you will be now -- the reason that UW is ranked higher than UM right now is actually because Minnesota has played tougher competition. Because so many games are thrown out, Minnesota's not getting the benefit of its own higher OW%, but Wisconsin is getting credit for Minnesota's high OW% in the H2H games, bolded above. So paradoxically, Wisconsin gets credit for Minnesota's tougher schedule and Minnesota doesn't.

Amazing.

To prove our theory is correct, if we take out the 4 H2H games in there, Wisconsin should no longer benefit from Minnesota's tougher OW% and should fall behind Minnesota even with removing bad wins -- and they do:

UM's RPI after deleting the 4 games vs. UW: .6716
UW's RPI after deleting the 4 games vs. UM: .6707
 
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Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

So paradoxically, Wisconsin gets credit for Minnesota's tougher schedule and Minnesota doesn't.
I feel like I need to take a shower after writing that; that's awful.
 
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Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

I feel like I need to take a shower after writing that; that's awful.
We often make it out to be a East/West thing, but my biggest complaint with RPI is that it seems to be completely overmatched in so many situations. People realize this, attempt to add kludges on top of it, and sometimes the kludges help, but in other cases they either muddy the waters or just make things worse. Maybe we should just spin a wheel and pick teams that way? Everyone has a chance! Yay! :cool:
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

So paradoxically, Wisconsin gets credit for Minnesota's tougher schedule and Minnesota doesn't.

The only games included in BC's RPI are the games against Northeastern.

So doesn't that mean that a team like Minnesota should just play a series against UW...and other than that load up on cupcakes guaranteed to a) not win b) be terrible enough to be excluded? You'd have a lock on #1 SOS.
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

So doesn't that mean that a team like Minnesota should just play a series against UW...and other than that load up on cupcakes guaranteed to a) not win b) be terrible enough to be excluded? You'd have a lock on #1 SOS.
Yes, unless you lose one of those games to Wisconsin, then you're screwed. The only reason BC only has one team factoring into their RPI is because they're undefeated. Once you lose a game, your RPI goes way down and suddenly a lot of games that weren't being included suddenly are.

When Minnesota went undefeated the only team included in their RPI was North Dakota. It's just the nature of RPI for an undefeated team. If you have a perfect record and have a dogcrap schedule, you're going to probably be #1. You don't even have to have a game against Wisconsin in there for that to be the case.

For example, RIT has the worst SOS in the country according to the PWR, and if you gave them a perfect record with that schedule they would be 2nd behind only BC, who is also undefeated. RIT's games against Princeton would be driving their RPI.
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

I will say that I'm disappointed that BC can still only manage a KRACH rating of four digits to the left of the decimal place. By this time in 2013, Minnesota had needed scientific notation for weeks.
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

I will say that I'm disappointed that BC can still only manage a KRACH rating of four digits to the left of the decimal place. By this time in 2013, Minnesota had needed scientific notation for weeks.
YES I remember this ahaha and I've been hoping each successive win is going to get there, but it (obviously) hasn't yet.
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

Interesting. So if the dawgs or the sue win the wcha, do they get the 8 or 7 seed? That's where being 2nd would be worse than being 3rd taking into consideration the fist round only.
 
Interesting. So if the dawgs or the sue win the wcha, do they get the 8 or 7 seed? That's where being 2nd would be worse than being 3rd taking into consideration the fist round only.
It depends on who wins the CHA and if there are any other autobids out of WHEA or ECAC. It goes by final Pairwise ranking. But it really doesn't matter either way.

ND would be 7th with no other autobids, but they would be going to Minnesota no matter where they end up because Wisconsin is a flight.

Duluth could send up being either 5th or 6th or 7th or 8th, but they are going to the #2 seed regardless of whether they end up 7th or 8th and to the 3 seed if they are 5th or 6th.
 
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Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

Duluth could send up being either 5th or 6th or 7th or 8th, but they are going to the #2 seed regardless of whether they end up 7th or 8th and to the 3 seed if they are 5th or 6th.
Not necessarily. That would depend on who the CHA team is and whether or not they would have to fly to Boston.
 
Re: 2016 Pairwise Calculator

Not necessarily. That would depend on who the CHA team is and whether or not they would have to fly to Boston.

Sorry yeah I let my caveats get away from me -- the point is they are staying west and playing the #2 or #3 regardless of whether they are 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th.
 
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