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2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
- Thread starter PennStateWomensHockey
- Start date
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
I'd say that Brian Idalski understands the "win more games" concept (see his "rant" after the WCHA championship game: http://www.wcha.com/women/recaps14.php?wminndk1.m08 ). Sounds like he he's going to try to play easier teams, since playing teams ranked 1, 2 and 3 did nothing for his team.
I'd say that Brian Idalski understands the "win more games" concept (see his "rant" after the WCHA championship game: http://www.wcha.com/women/recaps14.php?wminndk1.m08 ). Sounds like he he's going to try to play easier teams, since playing teams ranked 1, 2 and 3 did nothing for his team.
Watson Rink
Registered User
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
Two totally different answers:
1. The number of players has tended to ebb and flow over the years, and this was an ebb year, with 1 G, 2D (one who can also play F) and 2 F out for the entire academic year with concussions or elsewhere. Next year may be a flow year, as we hope all 5 (who all preserved their eligibility) will be back and healthy. So we can't say that the team is disadvantaged in the long run, only that it has been a tough grind for the players and a real achievement that they have gotten as far this year as they have.
2. That being said, the coaching staff is well known for playing a very limited subset of the roster in both ebb and flow years, and that tendency has been the subject of considerable criticism over the years on the Harvard thread. Again, not something to whine about, because it's a pure coaching decision, but it evokes sympathy both for the players with a lot of ice time and for those with little ice time. As well as the argument that a short roster is irrelevant inasmuch as the coaches would play an unusually short bench even with a large roster.
Two totally different answers:
1. The number of players has tended to ebb and flow over the years, and this was an ebb year, with 1 G, 2D (one who can also play F) and 2 F out for the entire academic year with concussions or elsewhere. Next year may be a flow year, as we hope all 5 (who all preserved their eligibility) will be back and healthy. So we can't say that the team is disadvantaged in the long run, only that it has been a tough grind for the players and a real achievement that they have gotten as far this year as they have.
2. That being said, the coaching staff is well known for playing a very limited subset of the roster in both ebb and flow years, and that tendency has been the subject of considerable criticism over the years on the Harvard thread. Again, not something to whine about, because it's a pure coaching decision, but it evokes sympathy both for the players with a lot of ice time and for those with little ice time. As well as the argument that a short roster is irrelevant inasmuch as the coaches would play an unusually short bench even with a large roster.
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
I just checked all four host team's sites, and Cornell was the only one I could find the video feed link (although it's not live yet.) I am looking forward to NOT driving anywhere, but to watching multiple games from the comfort of my home. I'll try toadd links to the other games as they become available, but if any of the home town crowds get the info first~
http://www.cornellbigred.com/coverage.aspx
I just checked all four host team's sites, and Cornell was the only one I could find the video feed link (although it's not live yet.) I am looking forward to NOT driving anywhere, but to watching multiple games from the comfort of my home. I'll try toadd links to the other games as they become available, but if any of the home town crowds get the info first~
http://www.cornellbigred.com/coverage.aspx
joegrav
New member
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
You mean you don't want to drive to Potsdam with us?
You mean you don't want to drive to Potsdam with us?
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
CJ (Claude Julien the rottie, not the man) has agility class at 10am way, far away from Potsdam, and I'm not going to sacrifice one for the other. Or the comfort of all that home viewing!
CJ (Claude Julien the rottie, not the man) has agility class at 10am way, far away from Potsdam, and I'm not going to sacrifice one for the other. Or the comfort of all that home viewing!
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
I believe so, but there is no info on their site either!
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
1) I think you're overstating how difficult it is for the WCHA to get 3 teams into the tournament. Since the tournament expanded to 8 teams, the WCHA has had:
2005: 3 teams
2006: 3 teams
2007: 2 teams
2008: 3 teams
2009: 3 teams
2010: 2 teams
2011: 3 teams
2012: 3 teams
2013: 2 teams
2014: 2 teams
That's 6 of the first 8 years. The last two seasons have been outliers more than anything. The fact of the matter is, North Dakota just wasn't good enough this year.
2) North Dakota's strength of schedule is factored into their ranking. Hell, they even beat Minnesota and Wisconsin this year. But they fell flat on their face in games against weaker teams. That doesn't just get wiped away.
I have a couple of points to make here:
1) I think you're overstating how difficult it is for the WCHA to get 3 teams into the tournament. Since the tournament expanded to 8 teams, the WCHA has had:
2005: 3 teams
2006: 3 teams
2007: 2 teams
2008: 3 teams
2009: 3 teams
2010: 2 teams
2011: 3 teams
2012: 3 teams
2013: 2 teams
2014: 2 teams
That's 6 of the first 8 years. The last two seasons have been outliers more than anything. The fact of the matter is, North Dakota just wasn't good enough this year.
2) North Dakota's strength of schedule is factored into their ranking. Hell, they even beat Minnesota and Wisconsin this year. But they fell flat on their face in games against weaker teams. That doesn't just get wiped away.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
While I do have an eastern bias, I'll be the first to admit, that UND at full strength would deserve to be there. I think they are one of the top 5/6 teams in the country, along with Wisco, Minny, BC, Cornell and Clarkson, and maybe you can even throw in Harvard.
At any rate the four losses in a row suffered by UND against the bottom half WCHA teams in February really stung. If they would have gone 2-2 in those games we would not be having this discussion. That is one of the perils of having National Team players from Europe on your squad in an Olympic year. Unfortunately the four losses was too much, once BU got that Autobid. Would have been interesting to see how the comittee would have handled the Quinny/RMU/UND comparison if BC had won HE. Then the discussion on here would have been even more fierce than it already is.
However everyone knows the rules going in and all teams on the bubble knew that the only security was to win the autobid.
As long as there is comparisons tables and selection committees, these discussions will go on. Personally would be in favor of doing away with all this committee selection stuff. Just have the league winners of the play-offs go to the FF and fight it out. Once the playoffs start you have a win or go home scenario for every round. If you want an 8 field team, mabye have both the play-off champ and the regular season champ advance to the final 8 or the the finalists of each league tourney. No ambiguity. Each league gets two spots and off they go. JMO. Keep it simple and leave the math/subjective selections out of it.
While I do have an eastern bias, I'll be the first to admit, that UND at full strength would deserve to be there. I think they are one of the top 5/6 teams in the country, along with Wisco, Minny, BC, Cornell and Clarkson, and maybe you can even throw in Harvard.
At any rate the four losses in a row suffered by UND against the bottom half WCHA teams in February really stung. If they would have gone 2-2 in those games we would not be having this discussion. That is one of the perils of having National Team players from Europe on your squad in an Olympic year. Unfortunately the four losses was too much, once BU got that Autobid. Would have been interesting to see how the comittee would have handled the Quinny/RMU/UND comparison if BC had won HE. Then the discussion on here would have been even more fierce than it already is.
However everyone knows the rules going in and all teams on the bubble knew that the only security was to win the autobid.
As long as there is comparisons tables and selection committees, these discussions will go on. Personally would be in favor of doing away with all this committee selection stuff. Just have the league winners of the play-offs go to the FF and fight it out. Once the playoffs start you have a win or go home scenario for every round. If you want an 8 field team, mabye have both the play-off champ and the regular season champ advance to the final 8 or the the finalists of each league tourney. No ambiguity. Each league gets two spots and off they go. JMO. Keep it simple and leave the math/subjective selections out of it.
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
NoDak's RPI in games against Wisconsin and Minnesota: .5540
NoDak's RPI all season: .5529.
I expect the difference is even more exaggerated in KRACH or Rutter given that those appear to put much more weight on SOS.
Except that's factually incorrect, seeing as how the games against Minnesota and Wisconsin improved North Dakota's RPI.
NoDak's RPI in games against Wisconsin and Minnesota: .5540
NoDak's RPI all season: .5529.
I expect the difference is even more exaggerated in KRACH or Rutter given that those appear to put much more weight on SOS.
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
I think that's probably accurate. If they had their full roster, and didn't lose all those games, then yes, they would deserve to be there, and their ratings would support that claim. But they did lose those games, so out they go.
That's not really true -- North Dakota having European Olympians helped them relative to the teams who had Canadian or American Olympians. We could sit here all day and talk about how good Cornell or Boston College or Harvard or Minnesota or Boston University would have been with their players back on their rosters too.
This isn't my cup of tea though.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
Suddenly, the PairWise doesn't look so bad. In your model, out-of-conference games have no meaning at all. I'll stick with the devil I know if this is my option.
joegrav
New member
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
This is pretty much exactly how I would do it. Maybe if you win both the league and playoff title for your league you get a bye.
This is pretty much exactly how I would do it. Maybe if you win both the league and playoff title for your league you get a bye.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
The CIS system in Canada only takes the conference play-off winners, a host and a second team from the conference that won the year before. (at least in Women's hockey that is how it works). And as you can expect, there is a lot of lamenting about that as well, specially allowing a host team in.
The CIS system in Canada only takes the conference play-off winners, a host and a second team from the conference that won the year before. (at least in Women's hockey that is how it works). And as you can expect, there is a lot of lamenting about that as well, specially allowing a host team in.
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
Can't speak to Brian's state of mind right after a tough loss, but it seems like he thought that the NCAA tourney gives more weight to wins than to SOS. Looking good in KRACH or Rutter is getting him just about as far as looking good in the bathroom mirror.
Can't speak to Brian's state of mind right after a tough loss, but it seems like he thought that the NCAA tourney gives more weight to wins than to SOS. Looking good in KRACH or Rutter is getting him just about as far as looking good in the bathroom mirror.
joegrav
New member
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
I've always found it ridiculous that the Memorial Cup, Canada's amateur hockey championship, allows one team an automatic bye into the final four just because it's the host, and then that team plays an entire pointless season with a guaranteed spot in the championship tournament awaiting them at the end of the year. It really cheapens the whole thing to me.
I've always found it ridiculous that the Memorial Cup, Canada's amateur hockey championship, allows one team an automatic bye into the final four just because it's the host, and then that team plays an entire pointless season with a guaranteed spot in the championship tournament awaiting them at the end of the year. It really cheapens the whole thing to me.
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
Although having players out in February clearly hurt UND down the stretch, don't forget that Quinnipiac had Sweden's Uden Johannson out not only for the Olympics, but who chose to take the whole season off to train. It seems likely to me, given her previous impact at Quinnipiac, that if they had her in the lineup even for as long at UND had its Olympians, that she would have made enough difference in the team's performance that they would now be in the tournament instead of Mercyhurst.
Tough break for Quinny, especially so since they are hosting.
Although having players out in February clearly hurt UND down the stretch, don't forget that Quinnipiac had Sweden's Uden Johannson out not only for the Olympics, but who chose to take the whole season off to train. It seems likely to me, given her previous impact at Quinnipiac, that if they had her in the lineup even for as long at UND had its Olympians, that she would have made enough difference in the team's performance that they would now be in the tournament instead of Mercyhurst.
Tough break for Quinny, especially so since they are hosting.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: 2014 Women's D-1 National Tournament
That is not exactly how it works for the Memorial Cup, at least when it is hosted by the OHL (Ontario). When the OHL hosts, only a certain set of top teams (I think it is four) are allowed to submit a host bid, at some point in the season. Point is they would not select a host city of a poor team. I believe similar selection mechanism are in place for the WHL and the Q to ensure a quality candidate, but not sure on the details.
That is not exactly how it works for the Memorial Cup, at least when it is hosted by the OHL (Ontario). When the OHL hosts, only a certain set of top teams (I think it is four) are allowed to submit a host bid, at some point in the season. Point is they would not select a host city of a poor team. I believe similar selection mechanism are in place for the WHL and the Q to ensure a quality candidate, but not sure on the details.