2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

[Watson Rink]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

In Boston we like defensive players with "NO" offensive skills but we vilify offensive players who have defensive deficiencies. Bruin fans drink the Kool Aid.

I'll admit you're right about that....I may have conceded as much by using the word "biased" in my original post....After all, only Bruins fans seem to realize that Kelly and Paille and Thornton would be top six forwards on other teams, just as only we seem to know that Marchand is a squeaky clean player who is somehow misunderstood (LOL). And until Phil Kessel jumps up and plays 57 seconds on a broken leg like "Soupy" Campbell, we're not going to consider him to be a real hockey player (LOL).

It's interesting, though, that the NHL comparison reveals something very impressive about the women on Team USA. None of them is anything like a defensive liability in the way that some NHL stars are, and none of them tanks defensively in the way some NHLers do. I mentioned Ryder: he was a wonderful two-way player....in the playoffs. He jumped into the goalmouth to bat away a sure goal, he backchecked and caught up with people starting all the way from the offensive goalline, but did he ever do that during the regular season....? (Seguin was a slightly different animal, I think he worked hard at some defensive things like forechecking and backchecking, but he sure didn't try to contribute offensively by advancing the puck by winning battles, and he sure couldn't win draws when they tried him at center).

 

[osualum86]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Gosh, then what are the Boston Bruins going to do? Give Coach Claude Julien a contract extension because the Bruins scored two in the last two minutes of a seventh game against the Leafs, or fire him because they gave up two in the last two minutes of the Stanley Cup final against the Blackhawks two weeks later?

Claude Julien won a Stanley Cup in 2011. USA Hockey hasn't won Olympic Gold since 1998, big difference, wouldn't you say?

 

[osualum86]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Typical of many coaches, whether in the NHL (or NFL for that matter), juniors, college etc. Get a lead and go into prevent mode. Obviously the biggest problem with that philosophy is that it flies in the face of the "a best defense is a good offense" and literally puts the team back on its heels. Prevent over the last two, two and half minutes is fine. Anything longer and a siege mentality sets in on the team in the lead, while the opposition is at "blood in the water" attack mode and usually only having to play from the neutral zone in.

I thought about that after I made my post, the fact that almost everyone does that. If they have a lead late, they go into prevent. Unfortunately yesterday, I thought the US went into prevent way too early, and it cost them a gold medal. Maybe I should have stayed off social media for a couple more days until I simmered down.

 

[RStarr]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Maybe I should have stayed off social media for a couple more days until I simmered down.

that's no fun...

 

[Hux]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I thought about that after I made my post, the fact that almost everyone does that. If they have a lead late, they go into prevent. Unfortunately yesterday, I thought the US went into prevent way too early, and it cost them a gold medal. Maybe I should have stayed off social media for a couple more days until I simmered down.

It's ok, I took out my aggressions on my snow shovel when I was cleaning off the roof of the house. Not a wise thing to do when you end up having to climb down to fetch the instrument so you can complete the task at hand!

 

[pucko]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

The US did not lose because of the refs. In fact, I remember that the whole reason that Stack even got that almost empty netter is because the linesman got in the way of the Canadian defenseman. Yes, it was a weak call in OT, but it should never have gone to OT because the US blew a 2 goal lead. Did the referee cause the puck to bounce off Bellamy? Did the referee cause Poulin to be wide open in front of the US net for the game tying goal? Did the referee tell the US to slow their offense after their 2nd goal? Did the referee make the US player have a terrible change so that Knight had to take a penalty because no one was back? Blaming the ref is an excuse for the US not doing what they needed to do to get the job done and that is what should be up for debate. I think we can all agree it wasn't the best call.

 

[osualum86]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

The US did not lose because of the refs. In fact, I remember that the whole reason that Stack even got that almost empty netter is because the linesman got in the way of the Canadian defenseman. Yes, it was a weak call in OT, but it should never have gone to OT because the US blew a 2 goal lead. Did the referee cause the puck to bounce off Bellamy? Did the referee cause Poulin to be wide open in front of the US net for the game tying goal? Did the referee tell the US to slow their offense after their 2nd goal? Did the referee make the US player have a terrible change so that Knight had to take a penalty because no one was back? Blaming the ref is an excuse for the US not doing what they needed to do to get the job done and that is what should be up for debate. I think we can all agree it wasn't the best call.

100% agreement from me, this loss falls on coaching decisions and players, not calls by the referees.

 

[osualum86]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

that's no fun...

LOL, thanks for making me smile.

 

[osualum86]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

It's ok, I took out my aggressions on my snow shovel when I was cleaning off the roof of the house. Not a wise thing to do when you end up having to climb down to fetch the instrument so you can complete the task at hand!

Thanks for the laugh, Hux! Hope you were able to get that roof cleared off eventually!

 

[brookyone]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

The US did not lose because of the refs. In fact, I remember that the whole reason that Stack even got that almost empty netter is because the linesman got in the way of the Canadian defenseman. Yes, it was a weak call in OT, but it should never have gone to OT because the US blew a 2 goal lead. Did the referee cause the puck to bounce off Bellamy? Did the referee cause Poulin to be wide open in front of the US net for the game tying goal? Did the referee tell the US to slow their offense after their 2nd goal? Did the referee make the US player have a terrible change so that Knight had to take a penalty because no one was back? Blaming the ref is an excuse for the US not doing what they needed to do to get the job done and that is what should be up for debate. I think we can all agree it wasn't the best call.

Agree. I alluded to officiating before the games...what to expect, hoping it would be better than the previous Olympics. I think we can all agree it should be better and all hope it is better in the future.

 

[northhockey]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Michelle Karvinen (Finland/UND) receives award for best forward of the Olympic tournament! Congrats

 

[Watson Rink]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Claude Julien won a Stanley Cup in 2011. USA Hockey hasn't won Olympic Gold since 1998, big difference, wouldn't you say?

It's totally irrelevant, actually. Read what you had said: "I'll bet the US team would have been prouder of themselves if they would have actually remembered that a regulation hockey game is 60 minutes long, not 56. Think it's time for the US to go in a different direction with the coaching staff. Going into the "prevent defense" yesterday (along with the other questionable decisions by Katey Stone that have already been mentioned here) was what lost it, not a couple calls by the referees."

In other words, you asserted that the team gave up two goals in the last 3:26 and it was the coach's fault that they did so.

My response was gosh, that means it was all Julian's fault that the Blackhawks did to the Bruins what the Bruins had done to the Leafs two weeks earlier.

My own belief is that blaming the coach is a non sequitur and that the coaches of Team USA, Team Canada, the Bruins, the Leafs and the Blackhawks had a lot less to do with those last-minute goal blizzards than the players who were actually on the ice.

Clear enough? Or would you like to present a rationale for firing Stone, Julian and the Leafs coach?

 

[northhockey]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

It's totally irrelevant, actually. Read what you had said: "I'll bet the US team would have been prouder of themselves if they would have actually remembered that a regulation hockey game is 60 minutes long, not 56. Think it's time for the US to go in a different direction with the coaching staff. Going into the "prevent defense" yesterday (along with the other questionable decisions by Katey Stone that have already been mentioned here) was what lost it, not a couple calls by the referees."

In other words, you asserted that the team gave up two goals in the last 3:26 and it was the coach's fault that they did so.

My response was gosh, that means it was all Julian's fault that the Blackhawks did to the Bruins what the Bruins had done to the Leafs two weeks earlier.

My own belief is that blaming the coach is a non sequitur and that the coaches of Team USA, Team Canada, the Bruins, the Leafs and the Blackhawks had a lot less to do with those last-minute goal blizzards than the players who were actually on the ice.

Clear enough? Or would you like to present a rationale for firing Stone, Julian and the Leafs coach?

Not blaming any coaches, but i was always confused why the best players got picked on the team, but the best coaches in the country were not selected

 

[osualum86]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

It's totally irrelevant, actually. Read what you had said: "I'll bet the US team would have been prouder of themselves if they would have actually remembered that a regulation hockey game is 60 minutes long, not 56. Think it's time for the US to go in a different direction with the coaching staff. Going into the "prevent defense" yesterday (along with the other questionable decisions by Katey Stone that have already been mentioned here) was what lost it, not a couple calls by the referees."

In other words, you asserted that the team gave up two goals in the last 3:26 and it was the coach's fault that they did so.

My response was gosh, that means it was all Julian's fault that the Blackhawks did to the Bruins what the Bruins had done to the Leafs two weeks earlier.

My own belief is that blaming the coach is a non sequitur and that the coaches of Team USA, Team Canada, the Bruins, the Leafs and the Blackhawks had a lot less to do with those last-minute goal blizzards than the players who were actually on the ice.

Clear enough? Or would you like to present a rationale for firing Stone, Julian and the Leafs coach?

Let me clear something up that seems to have gotten by you ... when I said team, I meant players and coaches. Last time I checked both were part of the team. Based on what you are saying, though, it wasn't Coach Stone's decision to go into the prevent defense, the players decided to go into prevent on their own. Wow. I didn't realize our players were making all the tactical decisions themselves. That changes things. Maybe next Olympics we should pick a different team. Seriously, guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. You obviously don't have a problem with what happened yesterday or every Olympics since 1998 for that matter (maybe you're Canadian and weren't even rooting for the USA). I, OTOH, was hoping to actually not see us become the Buffalo Bills of Olympic Women's Hockey. You'll have to forgive me, I'm old school. I didn't grow up in the "everyone gets a medal" or "we don't believe in keeping score" era, so I don't set here and glorify second place, at least not one day after the game ends!

 

[RStarr]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

"I stepped in two slush puddles today, but I wasn't even mad"

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

This must be the lack of respect for the opponents displayed by UW fans that the Brookster was referring to.

Yeah, I've never seen anyone type BADgers before or Whioux before. For someone with such a ferocious name....don't make too many prisoners walk the plank this weekend.

 

[RStarr]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

so according to EPSN's question of the day, 52% of 60k people are more disappointed with the men. ****ing great.

moving on.

 

[osualum86]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

so according to EPSN's question of the day, 52% of 60k people are more disappointed with the men. ****ing great.

moving on.

Wow. It's a shame people are more broken up about a men's loss in a game they never led in, and in the semi's, than a complete collapse in the last 3 minutes and change of the gold medal game by our women's team.

 

[Watson Rink]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Why is there no talk about who was on the ice in the last minute and a half for team USA with a face-off in their own zone? No Decker and no Knight on the ice. Stack won the face off and the puck was rung around the side boards to the other side and the board battle was lost. The forward on that side did not get to the boards fast enough and then lost the battle for the puck. Simple hockey. You get there and you chip it out!! The way Knight was playing the entire tournament --(IMO the best American) she should have been on the ice. Decker as well should have been - just in case Stack was thrown out of the face-off circle AND because she wins battles all over the ice!! The game should have NEVER gone to overtime!!

And rangersrule further wrote: " How about Duggan?? Your captain should have been out there as well!!!"

And pucko wrote: "Great point. In the other thread, there was talk of whether the coach has impact or the players since they're ultimately the ones who go out and do it or don't do it. But the last play, the 6 v 5, was the coach's call. I do wonder why Chu, who had like 4 shifts all game, would be put out there. But more importantly, why wasn't Schleper and Bozek out there?? Those are your two best D and Schleper was wonderful all game. You're playing for a GOLD medal, not some ECAC championship. It's not "which D pair is up next". You go with your best, and who is playing the best. Knight had a great game, Stack did not. Chu barely played and was a 4th line player. And if any of those other players were tired, then call a time out before that last face off."

I've reviewed the last 3:26 in slo-mo several times, and I believe if you did so, you'd both have to change a lot of the above analyses.

My preference is not to name players by name except those you've alluded to.

1. Duggan, Knight, Schleper and Bozek were in fact being double-shifted. Decker and Duggan were on the ice when the Canadians scored at 3:26 to go (along with #19-#22, and #28, no Julie Chu) and the D pairing remained on until 3:05 when Schleper and Bozek came on the ice (with Knight, #16 and #25).At 2:33, #19-#22 came on at D with Chu, Duggan and #17. At 1:35 Canada pulled the goalie and Schleper and Bozek came on at D with Knight, #16 and #17. At 1:14, #19-#22 came on at D with Chu, Duggan and #16 and they were on for the second goal.

2. When you're double-shifting players, it necessarily IS a question of "which D pair is up next" between the two D pairs you're using (3 of the D's were not being used). Otherwise you'd have used your one TO and gone with Schleper and Bozek for the final 3:26 plus the time they were on the ice before the first goal? Sure.

3. You can't very well chip the puck out until you have possession, right? The video at 1:10 shows Canada's #29 with a clear path to cut behind Chu and intercept #22's around-the-boards pass. When Chu reached back, #29 protected the puck with her body. "Simple hockey."

4. At 57.3, #16 drew the puck to the back boards but while #22 was pinning the Canadian player it squirted out, hopped over #16's stick and was loose in front. A Canadian player had the shortest path to the puck; Chu, Duggan and #19 all tried to catch up, Duggan got closest, but the shot went in.

5. Chu was on the ice for the 6-on-5 because she plays on the team's #1 PK unit and had been at F in the earlier successful 5-on-3 kill. She wasn't on the ice for Canada's even-strength goal. She was on the ice for the first U.S. goal, however, where she set the goalmouth screen.

6.I haven't seen any "ECAC championship games" where the coach chose to go with 1 ECAC player, two Hockey East players and two WCHA players on the ice. Maybe you have?

In summary, I suggest that analysis based on inaccurate factual assertions is worthless.

 

[ARM]

At 1:14, #19-#22 came on at D with Decker, Chu and #16 and they were on for the second goal.

Duggan, not Decker.