2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

[RStarr]

Not according to the Hockey Fans in the East when talking about the WCHA's championship stranglehold.

..as I was saying in the thread that imploded..

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

..as I was saying in the thread that imploded..

I was just going to ask, speaking about censorship, did someone get upset with the Dineen vs Stone thread?

 

[mnpokecheck]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

The Canadian clearly had positional advantage; the US player clearly reached out & gave her a shove from behind, knocking her off balance. Not a trip, and not a vicious cross check, but enough contact from behind to influence the play.

As Knight moves from left to right around the player she just clips the back of Wicks skate.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Women have been playing hockey of one sort or the other for a long time. Recently I was re-reading the memoirs of Lord Frederick Hamilton. From 1883 t0 1888 IIRC Lord Frederick was an aide to his brother in law, the Marquess of Landsdowne while the Marquess was Governor General and Viceroy of Canada. Lord Frederick describes hockey games he saw including women's games.

I am sure that the games have changed since that time. Even when my dad played high school hockey during WW I each team had a goalie and 6 skaters on the ice. By the time he got to playing College hockey in the early 1920's the team size had shrunk to the present size.

I was surprised how late UofM and UMD got into women's hockey, I know the Ivy schools were playing a good ten years before that.

I've got a photo, that I would include with this post if I knew how, of the McGill Women's Hockey team, 1921. Has eight players in the photo and the goalie pads look pretty impressive for back then. However, judging by the photo the goalie and one of the skaters leave one wondering about their gender so they may have been a couple of ringers.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

A little over the top about Poulin although she herself is admirably and respectably humble...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/canada-usa-womens-gold-medal-final/article16997885/

 

[dave1381]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Well I did watch the game from start to finish tonight. Here are my thoughts in no particular order.

1. You can't pin this loss on Vetter. Jenner's goal was a fluke. Nine times out of ten it misses the net. The fact that it hit Bellamy and changed direction is something Vetter couldn't control. And you leave Poulin alone in front, chances are she scores more often than she misses. Not much you can do about it.

I agree Vetter couldn't have done much on the first and third goals. On the tying goal, I agree the D could've done more, but Vetter could've done more, and I'm sure she would agree. I'm sure 2006-2009 NCAA Vetter would've not allowed that puck to get into harm's way. But you're right the D could've done more too. Collective failure like I said.

2. The referee allowed the Canadians to play a physical brand of hockey. More so than I thought was possible in a game of this magnitude. The Americans started the game answering the physical challenge but as the game wore on, you could see that they wanted less and less of the physical play. Canada simply didn't stop until the winning goal. Dineen obviously decided he would take his chances with whatever calls were made against his team. He guessed correctly.

I generally agree except I didn't find this to be anything exceptional or Dineen particularly worthy of any credit. That's just the way Canada plays and the way the game is often called.

4-1 in gold medals isn't an aberration. They've beaten us in the US, in Vancouver and now in Sochi. Venue doesn't matter, they know how to get it done.

Right, and the way I'd put it is you have some players who've had some success, and they're willing to stick around, that provides a continued advantage. I don't think it's a matter of the individuals on Canada inherently being mentally tougher than individuals on the U.S. --- we've never these BU & Cornell players for Canada dominate NCAA college hockey with their superior mental toughness -- but Canada's success on this stage is contagious.

 

[dave1381]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Trillium - to finish off the discussion from the deceased thread, I completely agree more pressure was on the Canadians as always. But the Canadians had the confidence that comes from having won at this level before. That was the main advantage.

 

[chickod]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

A little over the top about Poulin although she herself is admirably and respectably humble...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/canada-usa-womens-gold-medal-final/article16997885/

Nice article. But here's my takeaway...the only thing Katy Stoned could manage was "if it had gone in that would have been the game right there." Gee...how profound.

 

[chickod]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Nonsense. If the Canadians were truly winning based on the superior talent, we should see them dominate the World Championships by as much. They don't any more. That's because the U.S. has caught up to them in talent, and broke the Canadian lock on the World Championship in 2005, and there's no longer so much pressure for either side to win a World Championship.

And, just to continue for a bit more, unless you're like one of those soccer moms who prefers they not keep score so her kid won't "lose" (because losing isn't permitted in this country anymore...it hurts the little babies' egos too much and everyone's kid is a winner and a superstar), that's what "BETTER" means. When you almost always win the games that count, you are BETTER. Period. "Almost" and "we outplayed them for most of the game" doesn't matter. Jack Nicklaus won 18 majors because he was BETTER than everyone else. Or are you going to say he was "lucky?" And that everyone else had "caught up to him?" Regarding MPP, what would YOU call it? She scored the winning and tying goals. Just like Crosby in 2010. I guess they're not really "better" either. They're just lucky, right? I didn't see any Americans scoring the winning goal (and they had at least three great chances in OT before Canada finally put it away). Look, I was disappointed. But Canada is better. We're close, but they're better. Nobody except the die-hards watch World Championships. The Olympics are the seminal event in the world...it's what the non-sports fanatic remembers. It's multiple times more important than the World Championships when it comes to legacy and reputation.

 

[dave1381]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Sure, I agree, and any disagreement is pointless semantics.

 

[SeymoreHockey]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Agree...it is an obsession...that's why, if you want to win a Stanley Cup, you better load up on Canadian talent. Europeans (Russians especially) couldn't care less. Canadians do...alot!

See, this is what I don't understand. What do you mean, "emulate?" You sound like you can just "decide" to be great. You don't think Sweden, Finland, Russia and all these countries want to have good women's teams? You think they're not trying to "emulate" the Canadians? This is my entire point...Canada is great because it's a national obsession there. All this talk about "catching up." How? We've been playing in the US for 100 years...everyone makes it sound like we're new at this and look at the "strides" we've made. We have 9 times as many people and we still can't beat them. And I don't want to hear about World Championships. Nobody cares (except those same "die hards" that I have ranted about on the BU thread). The Olympics are the SIGNATURE event and the most watched in the world. I'm not going to carry on anymore because there are a lot of disappointed people today. Let me just sum it up this way. This was Doc Emerick's call: <B>"Two goals in the last three and a half minutes, and <I>PROUD</I> Canada has this tied up again.</B>" That's all you really need to know. As much as those of us who love the game want to argue, it means more to them. Period. Trust me. Don''t you have any Canadian friends? Ask them about it sometime.

 

[SeymoreHockey]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

While I'm thinking about it...where on earth did a BRITISH referee come from??? And why, why, why was she reffing a GM game at the hockey's largest venue??? Britain doesn't even play women's hockey....do they??? I couldn't believe it when I heard that.

BTW...female refs continue to suck. Why are they insistent on using them in huge events like this???

 

[Hux]

While I'm thinking about it...where on earth did a BRITISH referee come from??? And why, why, why was she reffing a GM game at the hockey's largest venue??? Britain doesn't even play women's hockey....do they??? I couldn't believe it when I heard that.


BTW...female refs continue to suck. Why are they insistent on using them in huge events like this???

Actually they were Gold Medalists in their Division (II I believe) a few years ago.

 

[chickod]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

BTW...female refs continue to suck. Why are they insistent on using them in huge events like this???

Well, I'm not touching that one as I am sure it will elicit some angry reaction. But I will say this...don't you think the speed and skill of the women's game has increased so dramatically that it now warrants a second referee? One of the games (I can't remember which one) the ref skated by the bench and screamed at the coach "I don't have eyes in the back of my head!" In that same game, a goal was disallowed because they said the goalie was "pushed" into the net by the player. Problem is, the ref was at CENTER ICE and could not see the play. The transition from defense to offense now is much too quick to expect a referee to cover goal line to goal line.

 

[SeymoreHockey]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

My point exactly...and until such time as they improve, they should NOT be officiating such key contests. It has been my experience that when they cannot keep up, they get frustrated, get angry and then start calling stupid things and ultimately lose the game for someone. This could have happened quite easily yesterday with couple of soft calls; a potentially missed penalty shot infraction; a linesman taking out a defensewoman to almost set up an empty net goal...this could have been a disastrous outcome...all because of the officials.

Well, I'm not touching that one as I am sure it will elicit some angry reaction. But I will say this...don't you think the speed and skill of the women's game has increased so dramatically that it now warrants a second referee? One of the games (I can't remember which one) the ref skated by the bench and screamed at the coach "I don't have eyes in the back of my head!" In that same game, a goal was disallowed because they said the goalie was "pushed" into the net by the player. Problem is, the ref was at CENTER ICE and could not see the play. The transition from defense to offense now is much too quick to expect a referee to cover goal line to goal line.

 

[AggiesHockey]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Did you miss the two previous explanations in this thread about the ref having given Duggan a warning in the second period for the very same thing when she could have called a penalty instead? If she doesn't call it when it happens again she loses all credibility and shouldn't be reffing the game...

You'd have a legitimate point if it was a legitimate slash. It was not. Not even close. Ranks as one of the worst calls I've seen in a hockey game at any level.

Canada might have won anyway, given their "superior talent" and supreme confidence, having won on the big stage so many times, but the bogus slashing call is an indelible asterisk on this year's gold.

 

[rangersrule]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Why is there no talk about who was on the ice in the last minute and a half for team USA with a face-off in their own zone? No Decker and no Knight on the ice. Stack won the face off and the puck was rung around the side boards to the other side and the board battle was lost. The forward on that side did not get to the boards fast enough and then lost the battle for the puck. Simple hockey. You get there and you chip it out!! The way Knight was playing the entire tournament --(IMO the best American) she should have been on the ice. Decker as well should have been - just in case Stack was thrown out of the face-off circle AND because she wins battles all over the ice!! The game should have NEVER gone to overtime!!

 

[ARM]

How about Duggan?? Your captain should have been out there as well!!!

Duggan was on the ice; she was a step behind Poulin on the tying goal.

 

[pucko]

Why is there no talk about who was on the ice in the last minute and a half for team USA with a face-off in their own zone? No Decker and no Knight on the ice. Stack won the face off and the puck was rung around the side boards to the other side and the board battle was lost. The forward on that side did not get to the boards fast enough and then lost the battle for the puck. Simple hockey. You get there and you chip it out!! The way Knight was playing the entire tournament --(IMO the best American) she should have been on the ice. Decker as well

should have been - just in case Stack was thrown out of the face-off circle AND because she wins battles all over the ice!! How about Duggan?? Your captain should have been out there as well!!! The game should have NEVER gone to overtime!!

Great point. In the other thread, there was talk of whether the coach has impact or the players since they're ultimately the ones who go out and do it or don't do it. But the last play, the 6 v 5, was the coach's call. I do wonder why Chu, who had like 4 shifts all game, would be put out there. But more importantly, why wasn't Schleper and Bozek out there?? Those are your two best D and Schleper was wonderful all game. You're playing for a GOLD medal, not some ECAC championship. It's not "which D pair is up next". You go with your best, and who is playing the best. Knight had a great game, Stack did not. Chu barely played and was a 4th line player. And if any of those other players were tired, then call a time out before that last face off.

 

[NMH]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

While I'm thinking about it...where on earth did a BRITISH referee come from??? And why, why, why was she reffing a GM game at the hockey's largest venue??? Britain doesn't even play women's hockey....do they??? I couldn't believe it when I heard that.

BTW...female refs continue to suck. Why are they insistent on using them in huge events like this???

Her name is Joy and she's done multiple international tournaments and this is her third Olympics. She has a blog for her time in Sochi, which I found pretty interesting. I don't remember the number off the top of my head, but this wasn't her first GM game.

http://joyinsochi.blogspot.com/