2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bull!!

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Nah. He'll be just fine sponsor and career -wise. The Danny Heatley of NASCAR if you will...

Not an entirely fair comparison, but probably as good of one as you can find in pro sports.

Heatley probably should've been jailed for what he did, even though it was accidental (as opposed to the road rage that led Stewart to do what he did). By that measure, Stewart should be in jail for quite a while (which he would be if he weren't rich and famous). Heatley's plea deal was pretty generous, but not horribly so. Stewart avoiding jail time for this would be a crime in itself.

 

[unofan]

Ward wasn't using a public crosswalk at the time. Accidents like this during sporting events are seen as slightly less important than similar accidents in public. For example, if a hockey player beats the snot out of a fellow player on the ice causing the player to need medical treatment, that's considered "a good hockey play." If that same exchange between two players happened in the parking lot of the ice arena or even the concourse of the arena, the local police could (and mostly likely would) be called in and charges of assault would be filed.

This was just a "racing accident," whereas had Tony Stewart run over a fan with his SUV leaving the race track, he'd be sitting in lockup right now facing vehicular manslaughter charges or worse.

This was just a racing accident the way mcsorley just made a hockey play on brashear. Which, btw, led to criminal charges.

No one is saying Stewart intended to hit the other guy. But I do think it's within the realm of possibility he intended to spray him with dirt. And that could be enough to move forward with at least a civil action.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

So all of racing should stop?

What would you suggest actually happen? NASCAR should cancel the race? ESPN should not cover the race? Life should stop as we know it?

We should probably give this through Monday before making a judgement, but it is odd that NASCAR hasn't made a disciplinary statement yet (even if only to say "we're investigating and will decide what sanctions to place on Stewart".

 

[solovsfett]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Nah. He'll be just fine sponsor and career -wise. The Danny Heatley of NASCAR if you will...




It was a tragic set of mistakes on the part of both parties. Ward for getting out of his car to show displeasure at the "NASCAR *hole ruining the up-and-coming drivers night" and for Tony Stewart to act out by playing chicken and trying to rooster the 20-year-old kid with dirt.

What I find most interesting is someone on Deadspin re-tweeted a pic of Tony Stewart's dirt car in the paddock area after the race, surrounded by a couple cops. A few commenters pointed out that the right-rear looks a little small and the rim and back of the car are a little too clean for just being raced.

The Dany Heatley comment is way off base. But I won't argue further on that here

...Obviously Ward shouldn't have walked right down to the cars, most of those guys (Juan Montoya @ Iowa) walk toward the racing line but stay a good 10-15 feet away from the cars and they either point, salute or throw a helmet. Ward just kept going as if he was going to pull Tony out of the car

that said, Stewart has the obligation to move his car away from this kid toward the inside retaining wall to avoid him. it certainly doesn't appear that Tony moves his car to avoid contact at all. In fact upon reviewing the video it appears Tony's front tires move to the right as the kid is right on him....I've never driven a sprint car obviously...someone w/experience on dirt racing or in sprints would have to explain what that final move might portend...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

So all of racing should stop?

What would you suggest actually happen? NASCAR should cancel the race? ESPN should not cover the race? Life should stop as we know it?

Nuke Daytona and Talladega.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

In fact upon reviewing the video it appears Tony's front tires move to the right as the kid is right on him....

Perhaps you should watch the video again. The car in front of stewart makes the same maneuever. It's subtle, but it's there.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

We should probably give this through Monday before making a judgement, but it is odd that NASCAR hasn't made a disciplinary statement yet (even if only to say "we're investigating and will decide what sanctions to place on Stewart".

So you already know without a shadow of a doubt what happened? Man, that video sure was clear.

More likely, NASCAR has no idea what actually happened, so they can't react. And their punishment will follow what the investigators find out.

Here's the problem with the road rage idea- why? The leading incident really didn't put them together- it just pushed one car up the track and into the wall. Stewart probably had no idea who we even was. Didn't hurt Stewarts car in anyway, and didn't really have an impact on if he could have won the race. Still, what would the point of reacting to the other driver from the car? I've never really seen a driver do anything toward a driver not in their car.

That make no sense to me what so ever.

Possible, sure. among a whole lot of other possibilities.

Yet your reaction does illustrate my point that whatever the result of the investigation is- it will be a conspiricy, even if 100% factual.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Perhaps you should watch the video again. The car in front of stewart makes the same maneuever. It's subtle, but it's there.

I reviewed 10-15 times for what you're pointing out and I just don't see that first car changing his line at all

 

[Priceless]

So all of racing should stop?

What would you suggest actually happen? NASCAR should cancel the race? ESPN should not cover the race? Life should stop as we know it?

Maybe they could show a little compassion instead of saying "Someone died. Oh well, time for green!"

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Maybe they could show a little compassion instead of saying "Someone died. Oh well, time for green!"

Which tells me that you didn't see the ESPN pre-race show, since they spent a lot of time covering the tragedy of the crash. You also don't actually know what NASCAR has done behind closed doors- could have done nothing, as you imply, or could have had a moment of silence- since most racers mourn deaths regardless of what series they run in. And even with all of those deaths, races are still run. Even if someone crashed in qualifying, the race would have started on time. That HAS happened in racing, and has been as long as I can remember. It's not actually that common that a race is halted when someone died. Heck most of a 24 hour race was run AFTER 88 spectators died in a horrible accident. (most being that the rest of the 24hr race was before the accident- the race never stopped)

Honest question- what compassion would you have been happy with?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

NASCAR is doing the smartest thing possible. Keeping their mouths shut. They COULD be named in a suit later so they are probably being advised to stand pat until the investigation goes a little beyond Internet forum whining and beeching.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

NASCAR is doing the smartest thing possible. Keeping their mouths shut. They COULD be named in a suit later so they are probably being advised to stand pat until the investigation goes a little beyond Internet forum whining and beeching.

I don't know how NASCAR could be named in a suit, because as far as I know the race Stewart was in (an Empire Super Sprints race) was not a NASCAR sanctioned event.

And ESPN just came out with the statement from the DA who has said thus far there are no criminal charges, nor evidence of criminal activity, though the investigation will continue.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I understand that, but lets be honest, that's NEVER stopped a lawsuit before.

 

[Priceless]

Which tells me that you didn't see the ESPN pre-race show, since they spent a lot of time covering the tragedy of the crash. You also don't actually know what NASCAR has done behind closed doors- could have done nothing, as you imply, or could have had a moment of silence- since most racers mourn deaths regardless of what series they run in. And even with all of those deaths, races are still run. Even if someone crashed in qualifying, the race would have started on time. That HAS happened in racing, and has been as long as I can remember. It's not actually that common that a race is halted when someone died. Heck most of a 24 hour race was run AFTER 88 spectators died in a horrible accident. (most being that the rest of the 24hr race was before the accident- the race never stopped)

Honest question- what compassion would you have been happy with?

No, I don't watch NASCAR. I did see Dale Jarrett's powerful message of sympathy...for Tony Stewart. He called this a "challenge" for Stewart. No, getting a cancer diagnosis is a challenge. Running someone over isn't really a challenge. Even if it was an accident.

As for what NASCAR could do...how about: when you're acknowledging the death of another driver, not promoting the race in the same tweet? Maybe you could actually do a separate tweet for him, then after maybe a few minutes promote your race? Maybe do a public moment of silence before the race? Did they do that? I'm going to guess from my Twitter feed that they didn't.

If the DA charges Stewart with anything it will be incredibly difficult to get a jury to convict him. In a civil suit, where the bar is "preponderance of the evidence," Kevin Ward's family stands a better chance.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

No, I don't watch NASCAR. I did see Dale Jarrett's powerful message of sympathy...for Tony Stewart. He called this a "challenge" for Stewart. No, getting a cancer diagnosis is a challenge. Running someone over isn't really a challenge. Even if it was an accident.

As for what NASCAR could do...how about: when you're acknowledging the death of another driver, not promoting the race in the same tweet? Maybe you could actually do a separate tweet for him, then after maybe a few minutes promote your race? Maybe do a public moment of silence before the race? Did they do that? I'm going to guess from my Twitter feed that they didn't.

If the DA charges Stewart with anything it will be incredibly difficult to get a jury to convict him. In a civil suit, where the bar is "preponderance of the evidence," Kevin Ward's family stands a better chance.

Great ideas. Dunno if they did any of that.

But lets be honest- if someone dies at your work that you have no idea who they are, do you do something similar?

Or if a manager you know of hits someone in circumstances you have fuzzy info on- do you have some kind of similar rememberance thing going on?

I'm not a NASCAR fan, but a racing fan. And find it interesting how much flak they are getting over this. They really had nothing to do with it- why react so quickly?

As for any suits- be them criminal or civil, that's a heck of an assumption based on something that happened less than 24 hours ago that you really have no idea what happened. To assume that criminal charges would not be found guilty is as odd as assuming that civil charges would be found by juries.

You post a lot of funny stuff that makes people think. But some of the posts you've made in this thread makes me really think- joking about punishment via other players when someone died is of incredibly bad taste. You want other people to mourn over this- you could too.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I struggle to see how anyone watching the video can argue definitively that Stewart is culpable. Forget that he's a grade a *******, I see nothing that tells me he tried to hit him or at the least saw him in time to adjust his line.

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

My take on the Stewart mess....First the only person who really knows if Stewart intentionally hit the other driver is Tony himself and I am sure he's never going to tell the complete truth so well never positively know.

With that being said, I personally believe that Stewart could have slowed down more and taken a more cautious line but I'm not sure that is a reasonable expectation during the heat of the moment. I believe that Stewart either thought he was safely by the other driver and/or was trying to spray some dirt on him. I don't believe he was intentionally trying to hit the other driver.

The other driver was a idiot for getting out of his car and moving toward the moving race cars. But unfortunately NASCAR and other sanctioning bodies either condone or do not do enough to make the drivers stop that kind of stupidity. How many times has this kind of BS happen in NASCAR? Seemingly every other race or there about.

I do think that Stewart is in for a world of hurt. Civil suits are sure to come and I wouldn't be surprised about criminal suit either. And for sure he will lose some sponsorship(s). Even in NASCAR sponsorships are hard to keep (ask Dale Jr.) and I can see at least one of Stewart's leaving due to this.

Finally I think that NASCAR should have parked Stewart for today's race. Not because he is guilty of murder (or anything like that) or because NASCAR should punish Stewart but because I believe wholeheartedly that it would be highly improbable for someone who has just killed a person (accidentally or not) less than 24 hours previously to be in a proper frame of mind to get into a race car where the slightest mistake can kill themselves or someone else. I just do not think that would be in the best interest of Tony and the other drivers who all depend upon each other to make wise decisions while racing.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Finally I think that NASCAR should have parked Stewart for today's race. Not because he is guilty of murder (or anything like that) or because NASCAR should punish Stewart but because I believe wholeheartedly that it would be highly improbable for someone who has just killed a person (accidentally or not) less than 24 hours previously to be in a proper frame of mind to get into a race car where the slightest mistake can kill themselves or someone else. I just do not think that would be in the best interest of Tony and the other drivers who all depend upon each other to make wise decisions while racing.

So Tony parked himself. Should have NASCAR penalized the rest of the team who had nothing to do with it? It may appear cold, but you know as well as I do that racing goes on pretty much regardless. Stewart-Haas racing has a team with money on the table to race a race. Tony was just one person (abit a large one) on that team. They had to run.

 

[MattS]

So Tony parked himself. Should have NASCAR penalized the rest of the team who had nothing to do with it? It may appear cold, but you know as well as I do that racing goes on pretty much regardless. Stewart-Haas racing has a team with money on the table to race a race. Tony was just one person (abit a large one) on that team. They had to run.

I wasn't clear and I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don't have a problem with the team fielding a car with a replacement driver (just like what happened) but if I was running NASCAR I would have not let Stewart run the race and would have publicly said so as soon as I saw that video and knew that Ward had died.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I wasn't clear and I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don't have a problem with the team fielding a car with a replacement driver (just like what happened) but if I was running NASCAR I would have not let Stewart run the race and would have publicly said so as soon as I saw that video and knew that Ward had died.

Possibility, certainly. But that's a tough call to make with just the cell phone video. It's a horrible incident from one of your drivers, sure. But sit a guy for what could be a horrible accident that is not part of your circuit? If a football player has a car accident that kills a second person on a Saturday night, does the NFL sit the guy? Can they?

Sure- if they found out later that it was his fault. But without all of the information, do you add to all of the rash reactions? dunno Again, the impact of such decision is more than the one person...