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2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Many thanks for all the tips on Philly and New York. We had a great time in Philly - saw a whole lot of historical stuff, saw 179 minutes, 59.4 seconds of great hockey, ate well, and had fun figuring out what train went where, etc. I was very pleasantly surprised with the city - nice people, nice city. Also we had a great day in New York. Saw just about all of what I figured we could in the time we were there, but its a crazy place!
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

There weren't big swaths of empty seats, like in may previous FFs (except for the Minnesota section during the first game, shame on you Minnesota). Either the NCAA or somebody did a better job of allocating the seats to the corporate and NCAA bigwigs who often don't show up (or they actually did show up). Pretty sure they didn't sell out, because I got another email Thursday morning saying there were still tickets available. Upper tier in the ends were pretty empty, except for the bands, but otherwise the empty seats were dispersed, so the place looked reasonably full, and gradually the lower bowl seats filled in, probably by upper bowl folks who moved down. The ushers didn't do much to prevent it (sometimes even during play :mad:).
I've got to disagree with this, at least in part. IMHO, the number of empty seats was higher than usual, and the number of local attendees was way down. As host site, I expected the Philly crowd to be comparable to NHL cities like Pittsburgh, DC and St. Louis. But local support was stronger in each of those three cities, again IMHO.

Disclaimer: My observation is based on Thursday; I wasn't able to stay for Saturday this year. On television, in-house numbers appeared to be improved on Saturday night. If so, that is a redeeming factor, especially for a first-time host.

The crowd was announced at the game, and is listed in the boxscore, at 17,311 which I believe is about right. A Flyer's game" packed house" will top 20,000 so my prediction was wrong, and it wasn't a sellout. I thought the the crowd was energized and the atmosphere good for a neutral site event.
At no point on Thursday were there 17,000+ in the building; it wasn't even close. I'm not confident that number represents a turnstile count either. Tickets distributed, I'd believe.

With regard to atmosphere, I agree with you. Still, most of the credit for that goes to the fans of the participating schools. That, and the fact the hockey was excellent. But yes, bottom line, the atmosphere was fine.

On a personal level, I want to commend you for a fine job leading the conversation on this thread. You provided lots of helpful information and insight.

For the record, the Union and BC sections were fairly empty as well during the Gopher-Sioux game...

Yes, entirely fair comment. I take back the "shame on you, Minnesota"; instead, I say "Good for you, North Dakota". Their section looked pretty full both games.
Agree with your modified reply. I thought all four participating schools represented themselves very well -- and very much saved the day in terms of attendance. Suppose we had the 2013 field of teams in Philly. Nothing against any of the 2013 participants; but had that been the case, I believe we'd be discussing the "attendance disaster" in Philly.

To a considerable extent, the high number of empty seats is legitimately explained by participating fans who chose not to attend the "other" game. Yes, the purist in me wishes they'd stay for the full session. And yes, on that criteria, UND comes out on top. But paying customers have every right to use their seats as they see fit. The real problem is that a large number of those seats would have been unsold for the entire session, but for the single game fans.

I say Philly got lucky, and is not a strong candidate for another Frozen Four in the near future. I post that with a heavy heart, as Philly is reasonably convenient for me, and it's a city I'd like to spend more time in. But when the tournament ventures outside of the college hockey hotbeds, extensive local support is needed to fill the building. I'm sorry to be disagreeable, but I just didn't see that in Philly.
 
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Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

I've got to disagree with this, at least in part. IMHO, the number of empty seats was higher than usual, and the number of local attendees was way down. As host site, I expected the Philly crowd to be comparable to NHL cities like Pittsburgh, DC and St. Louis. But local support was stronger in each of those three cities, again IMHO.

Disclaimer: My observation is based on Thursday; I wasn't able to stay for Saturday this year. On television, in-house numbers appeared to be improved on Saturday night. If so, that is a redeeming factor, especially for a first-time host.

At no point on Thursday were there 17,000+ in the building; it wasn't even close. I'm not confident that number represents a turnstile count either. Tickets distributed, I'd believe.

With regard to atmosphere, I agree with you. Still, most of the credit for that goes to the fans of the participating schools. That, and the fact the hockey was excellent. But yes, bottom line, the atmosphere was fine.

On a personal level, I want to commend you for a fine job leading the conversation on this thread. You provided lots of helpful information and insight.



Agree with your modified reply. I thought all four participating schools represented themselves very well -- and very much saved the day in terms of attendance. Suppose we had the 2013 field of teams in Philly. Nothing against any of the 2013 participants; but had that been the case, I believe we'd be discussing the "attendance disaster" in Philly.

To a considerable extent, the high number of empty seats is legitimately explained by participating fans who chose not to attend the "other" game. Yes, the purist in me wishes they'd stay for the full session. And yes, on that criteria, UND comes out on top. But paying customers have every right to use their seats as they see fit. The real problem is that a large number of those seats would have been unsold for the entire session, but for the single game fans.

I say Philly got lucky, and is not a strong candidate for another Frozen Four in the near future. I post that with a heavy heart, as Philly is reasonably convenient for me, and it's a city I'd like to spend more time in. But when the tournament ventures outside of the college hockey hotbeds, extensive local support is needed to fill the building. I'm sorry to be disagreeable, but I just didn't see that in Philly.

Fair enough and I appreciate your candor and compliment. It's a shame you weren't at the final Saturday because the atmosphere was electric and the crowd listed at 18,500 plus very close to capacity.

I'm more sanguine about Philly's chances in the next cycle. Lacrosse(both men's and women's) will be back in Philly in '15 and '16 after three previous successful Final Fours. Fans seem to really like the Sports Complex setup for major events.

Jonathan Tannenwald provides, in my view, an excellent overall perspective on the Philly FF and prospects for a return...

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pretzel/Frozen-Four-leaves-lasting-memories-in-Philadelphia.html
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Why not? We could put up tents in the yard for potential overflow. Then again, I'd better check...

That'd be fine for my son and I. Might have to leave the Mrs at home though as roughing it to her is no built-in hair dryer and the shower is too small. ;)
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Fair enough and I appreciate your candor and compliment. It's a shame you weren't at the final Saturday because the atmosphere was electric and the crowd listed at 18,500 plus very close to capacity.

I'm more sanguine about Philly's chances in the next cycle. Lacrosse(both men's and women's) will be back in Philly in '15 and '16 after three previous successful Final Fours. Fans seem to really like the Sports Complex setup for major events.
I liked the set-up a lot. Large, suburban style parking lot for tailgating; yet also on the train line. Kind of the best of both worlds. And certainly a counterpoint to the claim that sports venues absolutely must be downtown.

I also enjoyed the baseball venue Wednesday evening. Ingress and egress were easy; sightlines were fine. Things didn't go so well for the home team, but otherwise the experience was all good.

You have every reason to be optimistic about Philly's chances in Lacrosse and Hoops. And I am taking into account that your perfectly chosen word suggests a positive bias based on blood ties.;) I just think for college hockey, Philly is going to need to take local interest to the next level before the tournament comes back.

Again, things did turn out well. But comparable cities have done a little better, and deserve to be closer to the front of the line, IMHO.

Jonathan Tannenwald provides, in my view, an excellent overall perspective on the Philly FF and prospects for a return...

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pretzel/Frozen-Four-leaves-lasting-memories-in-Philadelphia.html
Outstanding write-up. And yes, if the program at Penn could get re-established, that would be a huge plus.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Come on you Wharton School guys out there running private equity firms and hedge funds. Do for Penn what Terry Pegula did for Penn State. You don't even have to spend $110,000,000. Simply renovate the venerable Class of 1923 rink!
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Jonathan Tannenwald provides, in my view, an excellent overall perspective on the Philly FF and prospects for a return...

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pretzel/Frozen-Four-leaves-lasting-memories-in-Philadelphia.html

Good article. It's always interesting to see a college hockey outsider's view.

I had a great time in Philly (and Baltimore where I traveled Friday night to see my O's play). Plenty to do and see. I was glad to not see huge empty sections of prime seating like we did in Pittsburgh, although those seats weren't packed in Philly. I wonder if the city, the NCAA(did they give away fewer corporate seats) or the teams(name recoginition) were responsible for that.

Got burned with my extra pair of tickets, but still had a great time.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

A little off topic, is there an active sign up page for getting on the Frozen Four ticket lottery system? I foresee Boston being a much harder ticket next year. Also seeing that this years event did not sell out, do the folks that did not take advantage of their ticket priority get bumped from the list? Wondering this in hopes it would create more opportunities for new blood on the priority list.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

A little off topic, is there an active sign up page for getting on the Frozen Four ticket lottery system? I foresee Boston being a much harder ticket next year. Also seeing that this years event did not sell out, do the folks that did not take advantage of their ticket priority get bumped from the list? Wondering this in hopes it would create more opportunities for new blood on the priority list.

I am hoping to buy tickets early to this Frozen Four as I live in the area. The second they are released I plan on buying them.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Because of the demand, there will probably not be any left after the priority purchases. I usually get 2 but will buy 4 for Boston.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

A little off topic, is there an active sign up page for getting on the Frozen Four ticket lottery system? I foresee Boston being a much harder ticket next year. Also seeing that this years event did not sell out, do the folks that did not take advantage of their ticket priority get bumped from the list? Wondering this in hopes it would create more opportunities for new blood on the priority list.
People with priority who didn't buy tickets don't get bumped; they stay at the same position on the priority list and drop back relative to the people who did buy tickets, but maintain the status quo relative to people who never have bought tickets. And this year higher priority didn't give you improved odds in the lottery; it just meant you got to select your tickets earlier.

You might want to sign up for email updates on presale offers at

http://www.ncaa.com/newsletter-signup/icehockeym

Apparently there are some "hospitality packages" available now, but presumably the list will keep you informed when the general sale happens.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

People with priority who didn't buy tickets don't get bumped; they stay at the same position on the priority list and drop back relative to the people who did buy tickets, but maintain the status quo relative to people who never have bought tickets. And this year higher priority didn't give you improved odds in the lottery; it just meant you got to select your tickets earlier.

You might want to sign up for email updates on presale offers at

http://www.ncaa.com/newsletter-signup/icehockeym

Apparently there are some "hospitality packages" available now, but presumably the list will keep you informed when the general sale happens.

thanks for the info and I have signed up for that email.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

People with priority who didn't buy tickets don't get bumped; they stay at the same position on the priority list and drop back relative to the people who did buy tickets, but maintain the status quo relative to people who never have bought tickets. And this year higher priority didn't give you improved odds in the lottery; it just meant you got to select your tickets earlier.

You might want to sign up for email updates on presale offers at

http://www.ncaa.com/newsletter-signup/icehockeym

Apparently there are some "hospitality packages" available now, but presumably the list will keep you informed when the general sale happens.

I also appreciate the link as well.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

A little off topic, is there an active sign up page for getting on the Frozen Four ticket lottery system? I foresee Boston being a much harder ticket next year.
With regard to demand, you're almost certainly correct. As for the timing of getting into the lottery (as a newbie) under the current "select-a-seat" system, I don't know off the top of my head. Anyone?

It used to be the answer to this question was May, with the drawing occurring in June. But for the past two tournaments we've been selecting seats in October.

Also seeing that this years event did not sell out, do the folks that did not take advantage of their ticket priority get bumped from the list? Wondering this in hopes it would create more opportunities for new blood on the priority list.
No. If you take a year off, you don't earn that year's priority point. But you do retain the points previously earned. So anyone with at least one priority point will be ahead of 2015 newbies, whether the priority holder attended in Philly or not. Put another way, each tournament can shuffle the rank order within the group of priority holders, but it doesn't create "opportunities for new blood." At the bottom of the ladder, what matters is the number of priority holders who actually exercise their option to purchase tickets through the system -- or not.

I am hoping to buy tickets early to this Frozen Four as I live in the area. The second they are released I plan on buying them.
There probably won't be a "release" per se. I expect that the lottery will exhaust the supply of available tickets in Boston. Back in 2004, probably half the applicants to Boston's lottery were rejected. Some newbies did get into the building through the general lottery. My guess is that will be the case again, and that 2015 will mark the return of a real two stage lottery -- with applicants being rejected at both stages. Now that's not a certainty, as the NCAA reserves the right to tweak the system at any time. But as far as I know, the two stage lottery has never been officially scrapped. It's just that the distinction between the two stages has been mostly irrelevant since 2010, when the tournament stopped selling out at the lottery stage.

Back in the day, we used to talk about the "bubble level" in each lottery. In other words, the number of priority points needed to be 100% assured of getting seats would be one step above the bubble level. At the bubble level, some applicants got seats in the priority lottery, some did not. Below the bubble, everyone was relegated to the general lottery, along with the newbies.

After each tournament, I posted a detailed Summary of the Seat Assignments for that year. The "dataset" consisted of dozens of reports of seat locations, paired with that poster's priority level. Maybe that Summary will make a cameo appearance in 2015.:cool:

Or, maybe not. It's a different world for FF tickets now. The speculators are long gone. The big question for next year is whether those holding long dormant priority will jump back into the lottery system. I suspect a significant number will. Then again, even 2011 St. Paul didn't sell out until the last minute. So there is considerable uncertainty here.

Final aside: It feels really strange to refer to 2009 and the years immediately prior as "back in the day.":o
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

I'm one of those who will likely jump back in the pool. I think I'm priority 9 and it's been a couple years since I bought.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

So I just got an email from the NCAA pushing signing up for priority staus for tickets to nest years FF. It says if you already have priority staus, you don't have to. Now, I haven't been to a FF since the last time it was in Boston in 2004, but back then, I did have priority status, as it existed then. Does that mean that I'm still priority, although probably a bit further back down in the pecking order, or has the process changed since then?
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

So I just got an email from the NCAA pushing signing up for priority staus for tickets to nest years FF. It says if you already have priority staus, you don't have to. Now, I haven't been to a FF since the last time it was in Boston in 2004, but back then, I did have priority status, as it existed then. Does that mean that I'm still priority, although probably a bit further back down in the pecking order, or has the process changed since then?
That's odd. If you've bought tickets through official channels, that should mean that you have priority, but are farther back in the pecking order like you say. You shouldn't need to do anything to keep your priority. What it sounds like they're doing to me is that they may be canceling the priority status of folks who bought tickets a while back, but haven't for the last several years. In that case, if you don't "sign up" or whatever they're calling it, it could mean that for future years you'll be in the same status as folks who've never bought tickets. Perhaps there are a lot of people who have only one or two priority points and they're trying to clean up the books. The priority system was designed to encourage people to go every year, but if there are a lot of people who "won" the lottery one year but didn't go in subsequent years, then the priority system is not accomplishing its goal.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

What it says is to sign up for presale offers, and be entered in to the priority ticket purchase process for the 2015 FF.

What those "pre-sale" offers are, it doesn't specify, but there are two ads at the bottom of the email offering tickets for Lacrosse championship and the College World Series.
 
Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

With regard to demand, you're almost certainly correct. As for the timing of getting into the lottery (as a newbie) under the current "select-a-seat" system, I don't know off the top of my head. Anyone?

It used to be the answer to this question was May, with the drawing occurring in June. But for the past two tournaments we've been selecting seats in October.

No. If you take a year off, you don't earn that year's priority point. But you do retain the points previously earned. So anyone with at least one priority point will be ahead of 2015 newbies, whether the priority holder attended in Philly or not. Put another way, each tournament can shuffle the rank order within the group of priority holders, but it doesn't create "opportunities for new blood." At the bottom of the ladder, what matters is the number of priority holders who actually exercise their option to purchase tickets through the system -- or not.

There probably won't be a "release" per se. I expect that the lottery will exhaust the supply of available tickets in Boston. Back in 2004, probably half the applicants to Boston's lottery were rejected. Some newbies did get into the building through the general lottery. My guess is that will be the case again, and that 2015 will mark the return of a real two stage lottery -- with applicants being rejected at both stages. Now that's not a certainty, as the NCAA reserves the right to tweak the system at any time. But as far as I know, the two stage lottery has never been officially scrapped. It's just that the distinction between the two stages has been mostly irrelevant since 2010, when the tournament stopped selling out at the lottery stage.

Back in the day, we used to talk about the "bubble level" in each lottery. In other words, the number of priority points needed to be 100% assured of getting seats would be one step above the bubble level. At the bubble level, some applicants got seats in the priority lottery, some did not. Below the bubble, everyone was relegated to the general lottery, along with the newbies.

After each tournament, I posted a detailed Summary of the Seat Assignments for that year. The "dataset" consisted of dozens of reports of seat locations, paired with that poster's priority level. Maybe that Summary will make a cameo appearance in 2015.:cool:

Or, maybe not. It's a different world for FF tickets now. The speculators are long gone. The big question for next year is whether those holding long dormant priority will jump back into the lottery system. I suspect a significant number will. Then again, even 2011 St. Paul didn't sell out until the last minute. So there is considerable uncertainty here.

Final aside: It feels really strange to refer to 2009 and the years immediately prior as "back in the day.":o

Great post and history of the process for the neophytes like myself. Don't worry about "back in the day" you are only as old as youfeel!
 
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