2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

[jerrynu26]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

Do you really think that this situation is equitable?

It is equitable to everyone according to the rules which were decided on, and enacted by, the Division 3 schools thru the NCAA process.

 

[norm1909]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

That the RS standings determine the PS brackets does not in any way preclude the possibility of an unworthy team winning 2 or 3 games to usurp an NCAA berth from a team that has earned it over the long haul, Larry... There is no plausible reason whatsoever for awarding even an outside chance of a berth to most of the teams who get such an opportunity via the dumb construct of the extraneous "conference tournament".

This should be an easy concept to grasp, yet you repeatedly miss the point... Glad that I don't have to attempt to teach you the intricacies of matching the hatch.

No plausible reason - beyond it being the law of the land before the season starts, no plausible reason beyond allowing for the possibility that the best team at the end of the season wasn't before then, but their hard work, dedication, coaching and training would be worth it knowing that as long as they peaked at the right time, they would have a chance. Eliminating the possibility for Cinderella to get to the ball, despite her lineage, is simply unsportsmanlike.

The only unworthy teams are teams that can't figure out how to properly finance Canadian players

 

[Ozz]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

(I get you; there has to be a tournament at some point, yes... My point is that there is a better way to select those that are given the opportunity to play for a NC.)

This is how I'd do it: play a conference tournament or not, but have those games afforded no more import than RS games, then use an objective metric to choose the NCAA field of 11 on the basis of every available result, without weighting tournament games more heavily than RS games.

Next, award the higher seeds home-ice until the FF, and see what happens, just as D-3 does now... (Granted, there would still be some controversy re: the final few selections, but it wouldn't be about a #37 RPI ousting a #9 via a silly AQ, it would be about a couple of teams -all with good resumes and within a nose of each other- with insufficient room for them all.)

That's as simple, as transparent, and as fair as Life gets, IMO.

I think that that model leaves too many teams with nothing to play for the last half of the season. As far as transparency, it doesn't get any more transparent than the current set up as far as Pool A bids.

I think the SUNYAC does their post-season tournament well in terms of making the regular season very relevant. The current SUNYAC set up leaves the bottom teams out of the tournament and gives the top teams a bye in the tournament, makes nearly every game in the regular season very meaningful.

 

[norm1909]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

I think that that model leaves too many teams with nothing to play for the last half of the season. As far as transparency, it doesn't get any more transparent than the current set up as far as Pool A bids.

I think the SUNYAC does their post-season tournament well in terms of making the regular season very relevant. The current SUNYAC set up leaves the bottom teams out of the tournament and gives the top teams a bye in the tournament, makes nearly every game in the regular season very meaningful.

+1

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

I think that that model leaves too many teams with nothing to play for the last half of the season. As far as transparency, it doesn't get any more transparent than the current set up as far as Pool A bids.

I think the SUNYAC does their post-season tournament well in terms of making the regular season very relevant. The current SUNYAC set up leaves the bottom teams out of the tournament and gives the top teams a bye in the tournament, makes nearly every game in the regular season very meaningful.

It's true that a couple of conferences are generally irrelevant from top to bottom year-in and year-out... Ergo, I don't endorse a system that lets everybody get a berth, regardless of merit. D-3 hockey, as obscure as it may be, shouldn't as inclusive as little-kid T-ball, where everyone gets to play by divine decree.

(And, as far as the '12/'13 SUNYAC tournament went, Buff State, Fredonia and Pottsdam were all invited, and none of them had earned the opportunity to get into the NCAAs on the basis of their resumes... Hell, Buffalo, at 13-12, was the only among that group to finish over .500. Why should any of those teams have even been gifted an outside shot at the NC? That just doesn't stand to reason.)

You guys can defend the current system until you're blue in the face, but it's clearly not a meritocracy.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

It is equitable to everyone according to the rules which were decided on, and enacted by, the Division 3 schools thru the NCAA process.

Well that goes to the point, doesn't it?

Simply because some political body has enacted a set of rules does not in any manner render those rules inherently legitimate... If that were the case, we'd all be fine with Islamic Law, just because is was duly-imposed by the local powers that be in Yemen, or wherever.

Think outside the box, guys... Or are you all Tea-Party members?

 

[Ozz]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

It's true that a couple of conferences are generally irrelevant from top to bottom year-in and year-out... Ergo, I don't endorse a system that lets everybody get a berth, regardless of merit. D-3 hockey, as obscure as it may be, shouldn't as inclusive as little-kid T-ball, where everyone gets to play by divine decree.

(And, as far as the '12/'13 SUNYAC tournament went, Buff State, Fredonia and Pottsdam were all invited, and none of them had earned the opportunity to get into the NCAAs on the basis of their resumes... Hell, Buffalo, at 13-12, was the only among that group to finish over .500. Why should any of those teams have even been gifted an outside shot at the NC? That just doesn't stand to reason.)

You guys can defend the current system until you're blue in the face, but it's clearly not a meritocracy.

The same argument you make about Buff State not being as 'worthy' as an Oswego or Platty can be used in your model of determining an NCAA Champion. Just as Buffalo State may not look as 'worthy' as the other two, the 11th team in your model would not be as worthy as the top team.

Taking a look at least year for example, it is a pretty logical argument that Hobart was one of the top 11 teams. But is it fair that they would have gotten a chance at the NCAA Champtionship even though their resume wasn't nearly as impressive as others? After all, this isn't T-Ball, and only the best should have an opportunity...

My point is that you can argue against conference tournaments and that is fine. Many of your arguments there are valid, however, you can't turn around and say that the NCAA Champion should be determined by a tournament as well. If you argue against tournaments/playoffs, then the model you want argue for is the current system that exists in D-I (FBS) College Football where the top 2 teams (based upon the merit of the entire season, regardless of conference play) play for the title.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

Guys its simple, forget the Pool bids just give every team in the ECAC West the invite because we all know THEY are the best teams in DIII. I mean heck, the only other way they can win a championship is to cheat anyways. Bow down to the almighty ECAC West.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

Well that goes to the point, doesn't it?

Simply because some political body has enacted a set of rules does not in any manner render those rules inherently legitimate... If that were the case, we'd all be fine with Islamic Law, just because is was duly-imposed by the local powers that be in Yemen, or wherever.

Think outside the box, guys... Or are you all Tea-Party members?

Spouting inflamatory remarks does not an argument make.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

I think that that model leaves too many teams with nothing to play for the last half of the season. As far as transparency, it doesn't get any more transparent than the current set up as far as Pool A bids.

+1
For the same reason the third/fourth place national championship game was finally eliminated. It was too often a messy, vicious game by teams that didn't really care to play. The same as a 20-2-1 team playing a 5-18 team in the last game of the season.

And as far as teams going on a run at the end of the season, because coaches understand what the conference tourneys mean, they coach the entore season to peak at the end, not end-to-end. In my opinion, it results in a better product on the ice.

 

[elbojpb]

Reg vs Post Season

Reg vs Post Season

In the last decade, many sports have followed the NCAA Basketball and NFL formula of expanding the "wild card" entries, simply to make the 2nd half of the season meaningful, and more teams and their fans relevant. NASCAR, MLB and even Golf have used the Indiana High School tourney concept. If you used only the regular season metrics, then half of the fans would disappear at mid-season, some of them never to return.

For the sustainability of the sport, there must be a 'wild card' factor.

 

[OSU2010]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

He's just mad because the ecac-west doesn't have a pool A bid

 

[Norwich59]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

Think outside the box, guys... Or are you all Tea-Party members?

Is that supposed to be a dig??

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

The same argument you make about Buff State not being as 'worthy' as an Oswego or Platty can be used in your model of determining an NCAA Champion. Just as Buffalo State may not look as 'worthy' as the other two, the 11th team in your model would not be as worthy as the top team.

Taking a look at least year for example, it is a pretty logical argument that Hobart was one of the top 11 teams. But is it fair that they would have gotten a chance at the NCAA Champtionship even though their resume wasn't nearly as impressive as others? After all, this isn't T-Ball, and only the best should have an opportunity...

My point is that you can argue against conference tournaments and that is fine. Many of your arguments there are valid, however, you can't turn around and say that the NCAA Champion should be determined by a tournament as well. If you argue against tournaments/playoffs, then the model you want argue for is the current system that exists in D-I (FBS) College Football where the top 2 teams (based upon the merit of the entire season, regardless of conference play) play for the title.

You know what..? I actually agree with you in principle.

While Hobart was a bad example for you to cite -being very clearly better on-paper than several NCAA inclusions last year- the Utopian situation would have everyone compared to everyone via the same set of objective criteria all season long, including unweighted PS tournament games, if they want to play them.

Realistically, of course, that won't happen. People would complain about "paper champions" a la how college football used to do it, and with every justification... There are just too few H2H and CO comparisons available in a given year to draw much of any conclusions, even within the respective E/W regions.

So, in the absence of an impossible round-robin RS among every team in the country, I'm fine with having a national tournament. I would just like to see the participants selected with a little more regard for quality-of-performance, and not because they had one good weekend, or happen to play in a conference that is guaranteed a berth, regardless of merit.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

Spouting inflamatory remarks does not an argument make.

True, and my apologies... Politics have no place on here.

(Guess I'm still a bit chapped that Boehner & Co. shut-down Sandy Hook on the very eve of our planned vacation there last week. Jerks!)

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

Is that supposed to be a dig??

(Pssst..! You might want to delete that post before the NSA digs it up.)

 

[Norwich59]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

True, and my apologies... Politics have no place on here.

(Guess I'm still a bit chapped that Boehner & Co. shut-down Sandy Hook on the very eve of our planned vacation there last week. Jerks!)

You still don't get!!

 

[norm1909]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

True, and my apologies... Politics have no place on here.

(Guess I'm still a bit chapped that Boehner & Co. shut-down Sandy Hook on the very eve of our planned vacation there last week. Jerks!)

There you go, showing your ignorance again, it is still open for Tuna.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

You still don't get!!

Although I understand what you're saying (in an oblique sort of way) I'm not sure what I'm supposed to "get", exactly. (You and I can both easily identify the Right from the Left, even on a D-3 hockey thread... Why ignore the obvious?

The conservatives on here defend the current D-3 system as though it constitutes Mom and apple pie all rolled into one, while the progressives are deafening in their silence, for fear of offending anyone.

It smells exactly like a microcosm of American politics, if you ask me, excepting that nobody on the D-3 committee took away my God-given right to visit a National Park last week!

That one is on the delusional House Republicans, and while I'm a registered Independent and vote both ways, I'm pretty pizzed at the GOP right now, and not just because they ruined my trip to the beach.

 

[NorthernBlight]

Re: 2013-14 Pre Season banter. Put out the SOS and save us all!!

True, and my apologies... Politics have no place on here.

Although I understand what you're saying (in an oblique sort of way) I'm not sure what I'm supposed to "get", exactly. (You and I can both easily identify the Right from the Left, even on a D-3 hockey thread... Why ignore the obvious?

The conservatives on here defend the current D-3 system as though it constitutes Mom and apple pie all rolled into one, while the progressives are deafening in their silence, for fear of offending anyone.

It smells exactly like a microcosm of American politics, if you ask me, excepting that nobody on the D-3 committee took away my God-given right to visit a National Park last week!

That one is on the delusional House Republicans, and while I'm a registered Independent and vote both ways, I'm pretty pizzed at the GOP right now, and not just because they ruined my trip to the beach.

Have another beer.