2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

[mookie1995]

To your other comment, GFY mookie.
.

At least you get thought of as being 30!

 

[The Exiled One]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

I'm not understanding your metaphor regarding other countries.

It just has to do with a way of thinking instilled by our culture. Check out Geert-Hofstede. Conservatives tend to be more accepting of social stratification. Progressives, obviously, are less accepting of it. Consequently, countries that have a lower "power distance" acceptance tend to be more socially mobile (see Austria, Israel). I understand conservative thought not because I agree with the logic, but because I understand the underlying cultural beliefs. Therefore, even though I try to use logic to advocate my views, I understand that it will have little effect in changing the mind of any conservative. My goal is only to show how I can logically arrive at my views based on my cultural values. It's more about creating respect for each others' positions, which is what allows us to have civilized discourse. Without respect, it becomes strictly a win/loss slug fest.

 

[BassAle]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

do people really think we can get by with just raising taxes on millionaires or even households making over $400K?


personally, I think taxes probably should be raised on households making over $100K (this would affect me), and I think capital gains rates should be raised (tax it just like regular income). I also think we should cut the size of our military (severely), increase funding for the NIH and NSF, and transportation (our infrastructure is atrocious)

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

It just has to do with a way of thinking instilled by our culture. Check out Geert-Hofstede. Conservatives tend to be more accepting of social stratification. Progressives, obviously, are less accepting of it. Consequently, countries that have a lower "power distance" acceptance tend to be more socially mobile (see Austria, Israel). I understand conservative thought not because I agree with the logic, but because I understand the underlying cultural beliefs. Therefore, even though I try to use logic to advocate my views, I understand that it will have little effect in changing the mind of any conservative. My goal is only to show how I can logically arrive at my views based on my cultural values. It's more about creating respect for each others' positions, which is what allows us to have civilized discourse. Without respect, it becomes strictly a win/loss slug fest.

I don't know about what group accepts what, nor the validity of that, but if we're talking about opportunity and advancement, I don't think either of us is calling for accepting social classes. The statements previously made don't have anything to do with increasing the power distance index, but rather trying to decrease. What we are saying, though, is that it's not up to the government to make that decision. Sure, either the government or a philanthropist could provide a helping hand, but at the end of the day, it's up to the person himself/herself to take that helping hand and make something of it. Otherwise, we all become a bunch of mindless robots.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

do people really think we can get by with just raising taxes on millionaires or even households making over $400K?


personally, I think taxes probably should be raised on households making over $100K (this would affect me), and I think capital gains rates should be raised (tax it just like regular income). I also think we should cut the size of our military (severely), increase funding for the NIH and NSF, and transportation (our infrastructure is atrocious)

Short term capital gains already are taxed as such. (Yes, I know what you meant; see my previous writing for my thoughts)

Why stop at 100K? Why not just go across the board? Especially if the argument of "paying their fair share" is going to be utilised.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

geezer, its a little too early in the morning for you to be hitting the moonshine. Even Homer Simpson doesn't go to Moe's before noon so Marge won't be on his case for having a drinking problem.

Happy Holidays to you Rover.
Buncha killjoy grownups around here. I'll come back to rabble rouse when you let "Foxton" out of his cage in the basement again so we can all enjoy a good screaming meltdown.

 

[mookie1995]

do people really think we can get by with just raising taxes on millionaires or even households making over $400K?


personally, I think taxes probably should be raised on households making over $100K (this would affect me), and I think capital gains rates should be raised (tax it just like regular income). I also think we should cut the size of our military (severely), increase funding for the NIH and NSF, and transportation (our infrastructure is atrocious)

I've got two words for you.... In. Sane.

 

[Rover]

What is wrong with you that you obsess about "sides"? are you a professional political consultant? otherwise, who cares about "sides" winning this "point"?

Any deal on taxes that did not also include some kind of spending concession would be worse than having automatic spending cuts kick in.

I hope you personally become subject to the AMT this year so you can see how much fun it is for your "side" to win while the country loses.

I've got an idea; you give me everything I ask for while you get nothing whatsoever in return and we'll call it a "compromise." How's that?

I've been contacted from time to time by high up officials for some strategy ideas strictly on an advisory basis if you must know. No use letting all this talent go to waste!

However, the "us vs them" I speak of isn't Dems vs Republicans, its reasonable people vs knuckledraggerism. Brainless knuckledraggerism, as evidenced by 'leaders' such as Paul Ryan, Michelle Bachmann, Itch McConnell, etc needs to be wiped off the face of this country. Coddling these idiots doesn't do anybody any good, unless you're one of the idiots in question.

I always take steps to avoid the AMT especially in a two income household, but I've repeatedly said all tax rates should go back to Clinton era levels. The O wants only top tier to go there, but I think a phased in approach to get back to those Clinton rates will be the best way to balance the budget, along with cutting military spending and slowing the growth rate of the entitlement programs. All of these are easily within the country's grasp.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

I've been contacted from time to time by high up officials for some strategy ideas strictly on an advisory basis if you must know. No use letting all this talent go to waste!

However, the "us vs them" I speak of isn't Dems vs Republicans, its reasonable people vs knuckledraggerism. Brainless knuckledraggerism, as evidenced by 'leaders' such as Paul Ryan, Michelle Bachmann, Itch McConnell, etc needs to be wiped off the face of this country. Coddling these idiots doesn't do anybody any good, unless you're one of the idiots in question.

I always take steps to avoid the AMT especially in a two income household, but I've repeatedly said all tax rates should go back to Clinton era levels. The O wants only top tier to go there, but I think a phased in approach to get back to those Clinton rates will be the best way to balance the budget, along with cutting military spending and slowing the growth rate of the entitlement programs. All of these are easily within the country's grasp.

Name a person typically classified as "right-wing" that you would classify as "reasonable people".
Name a person typically classified as "left-wing" that you would classify as "knuckledraggerism".

Just like the guy who didn't want to go on the cart, you're not fooling anyone.

 

[unofan]

Any deal on taxes that did not also include some kind of spending concession would be worse than having automatic spending cuts kick in...
I've got an idea; you give me everything I ask for while you get nothing whatsoever in return and we'll call it a "compromise." How's that?

Your first point is merely your opinion, not fact. It depends what we're talking about, as well. The debt, unemployment, the overall economy, what?

Your latter point is hilarious considering the GOP got 98% of what it wanted the last go around, and turned it down in favor of the deal that gave us the fiscal cliff. You're right that one faction doesn't want to deal. But it's the Tea Party, not the President.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Guys -- it's not the taxes, it's the spending.

Pat Buchanan offers his perspective on the GOP as a tax cutting(?) party -- http://www.creators.com/opinion/pat-buchanan/why-god-created-the-gop.html

 

[Rover]

Name a person typically classified as "right-wing" that you would classify as "reasonable people".
Name a person typically classified as "left-wing" that you would classify as "knuckledraggerism".

Just like the guy who didn't want to go on the cart, you're not fooling anyone.

I'll play along. To answer your second question first, a guy who is as stupid and destructive as your common knuckledragger is Little Ralphie Nader. A true moron if ever there was one, but with the same sense of entitlement that the world should revolve around him despite a notable lack of public support that you see in today's conservative circles. For politicians: Joe Lieberman.

To your first question, I have a feeling anybody to the left of Attila the Hun you will classify as not being a "real" conservative, but from the past people like Bob Dole or Rudy Guiliani would qualify. Of current Republicans while I disagree with much of his views I wouldn't consider Lindsey Graham a knuck'.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Somebody had a good line about the "its not a revenue problem its a spending problem" talking point. They likened it to saying "I have an eating problem, not an exercise problem" if you're overweight, and then refusing to do any exercising based on that logic.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Somebody had a good line about the "its not a revenue problem its a spending problem" talking point. They likened it to saying "I have an eating problem, not an exercise problem" if you're overweight, and then refusing to do any exercising based on that logic.

Just remember that in this case, the converse is also true. There are absolutely no intentions of cutting aggregate spending from the left. Sure they'll decrease the defence budget, but then they'll spend it on something else.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Yes.

If you are a little overweight you can probably curtail the spending and get fit.
However, we (colectively) are like me... Phat.

To get control we need to eat better and exercise. Steal more revenue from the masses and pay down debt. As well as stop spending on dumb stuff.

When retirement age was first set at 63 or whatnot the life expectancy was what? 61?
If today you are expected to live until 75, you are eligible for social when you turn 74.

 

[The Exiled One]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

I don't know about what group accepts what, nor the validity of that, but if we're talking about opportunity and advancement, I don't think either of us is calling for accepting social classes. The statements previously made don't have anything to do with increasing the power distance index, but rather trying to decrease. What we are saying, though, is that it's not up to the government to make that decision.

So, if the government isn't a mechanism by which a culture organizes itself based on its value system, what is it supposed to be?

Also, I think you misunderstand what the power distance index is measuring. It doesn't say the individuals in those cultures don't want to move across classes, just that cultures with a high power-distance believe that opportunities being pinned to class is more acceptable. It says that those in upper classes are entitled to more rights and opportunities based on their position, regardless of how they arrived there. In other words, if you're able to defend generational wealth as a cultural norm, you have a high power-distance tolerance. This doesn't generate a cause-effect relationship with social mobility, just a correlation.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

There's no doubt it's a spending problem. But, there's also no doubt that both parties want to spend money and have no interest in cutting it. The amount of whining on Capital Hill about the death of 4 Americans in Benghazi (a deathtrap of a place if there ever was one) is deafening. The solution? Spend more money overseas.

So, since the amount of money is NEVER going to go down. It becomes a "what's your priority" game. And if we list the priorities of the two parties it's not even a close contest who's the most logical.

 

[walrus]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Somebody had a good line about the "its not a revenue problem its a spending problem" talking point. They likened it to saying "I have an eating problem, not an exercise problem" if you're overweight, and then refusing to do any exercising based on that logic.

All the exercise in the world won't make you lose weight if you take in more calories than you expend.

 

[The Exiled One]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

All the exercise in the world won't make you lose weight if you take in more calories than you expend.

WRONG. Your body can only absorb a maximum of about 300 calories in an hour. If you exercised constantly, you could burn up to 900 calories and hour.

 

[unofan]

All the exercise in the world won't make you lose weight if you take in more calories than you expend.

Eliminating eating may cause you to lose weight, but it also won't improve your health when you're deprived of necessary vitamins, minerals, and protiens.