2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

[SJHovey]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Regarding registration, we're not making it illegal to own guns (to your prohibition argument). You can own one fine...its just that you need to register it. That doesn't make it any sexier. If one doesn't register...then one is not a law abiding citizen anyways, is likely open criminal activity in general, and when discovered, may be worthy of police supervision for further criminal activity. Just a note to say that if youre thinking about committing a criminal act, society knows you have that gun.

I might be wrong, but I believe first that all new firearms have to be initially sold by a licensed firearms dealer. I also believe that every sale by a licensed firearms dealer, of a new or used firearm, has to be done in conjunction with the completion and filing of a form that includes the purchasers name, address and other contact information, information about the gun (including serial number) and a number of questions answered regarding the purchasers eligibility to buy and possess a gun.

So right now we already have, and have had for some time, a "registration" system regarding all firearms in this country.

What we don't have is a law that covers the private transfer of firearms, after the dealer has conducted the initial sale. So in other words, when someone steals a gun, or buys one from a friend or from someone selling guns out of his trunk at a "gun show", we don't have a law that makes the seller/purchaser/thief "register" that gun with the government, and essentially update the registration we already have in place regarding that firearm.

Well, call me cynical but I fail to see how such a registration requirement is going to solve this problem we have. So Lanza, Harris, Klebold, and the rest of these nuts, after acquring their guns for the illegal purposes they intend are going to go ahead and fill out that government form? Or Mrs. Lanza, right before she gets shot will do so? Or maybe the guy peddling guns out of his car at a trade show?

We require people to pay taxes on drug sales, if I'm not mistaken. How is that working out for us? Tax revenues up? Drug sales down?

The people who are going to register already do.

 

[Rover]

Where in my second case study did I say ANYTHING about a vehicle being involved? Read it again before I respond, and don't get caught in the talking points state of mind.

I didn't say that you did. Reiterating the connection between passing laws to prevent harm to others before tragedy strikes, be it with drunken drivers or loons with guns.

 

[walrus]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

So the 1.2 million cars stolen in 2006 didn't happen, and all of a sudden carjacking is completely off the radar?

yeah because guns are registered, no more car jacking

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

I didn't say that you did. Reiterating the connection between passing laws to prevent harm to others before tragedy strikes, be it with drunken drivers or loons with guns.

Actually, you implied that I did. My discussion had nothing to do with driving, heck it had nothing to do with leaving a frat house or apartment or dorm room or wherever! All I was talking about was a college party.

You get one more shot.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

We can't fix everything so it is better to just do nothing. Right?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

We can't fix everything so it is better to just do nothing. Right?

Your fix or no fix, eh? Spoken like a true leftist.

 

[Rover]

So right now we already have, and have had for some time, a "registration" system regarding all firearms in this country.

What we don't have is a law that covers the private transfer of firearms, after the dealer has conducted the initial sale. So in other words, when someone steals a gun, or buys one from a friend or from someone selling guns out of his trunk at a "gun show", we don't have a law that makes the seller/purchaser/thief "register" that gun with the government, and essentially update the registration we already have in place regarding that firearm.

Well, call me cynical but I fail to see how such a registration requirement is going to solve this problem we have..

Because the guy selling guns out of his truck at a gun show now by law has to either comply or get charged himself. Why does this matter? Because the background check and waiting period now apply to his sale or any private sale. Personally I wouldn't trust my brother to walk my dog, let alone trust him with a gun that I bought in my name. However, if a gun used in a crime gets back to you, and it wasn't stolen, guess what - you're now partially liable. That's going to make people think twice about who they give firearms to.

Furthermore, if I'm the dealer and some spaz tries to buy an arsenal off of me and even asks if I deal in nukes, I might be inclined to tip off the cops since I'm going through the whole background check/waiting period anyway. That will be less likely to happen if the transaction takes 30 seconds at a gun show.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Your fix or no fix, eh? Spoken like a true leftist.

Do you have anything meaningful to contribute to the conversation, or are you just going to try to argue with anyone who proposes a solution? Why don't you tell us what your solution to the problem is? Or do you consider 20 dead kids and 6 dead teachers an acceptable price to pay for the 2nd Amendment?

 

[burd]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Your fix or no fix, eh? Spoken like a true leftist.

I'm not what you would call a "leftist," but it seems to me that what Priceless is implying is that some fix is better than no fix. Or, to use a common idiom, don't let the best be the enemy of the good.

 

[unofan]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Your fix or no fix, eh? Spoken like a true leftist.

Since you refuse to propose any fixes, you leave us no alternative but to assume you're fine with the status quo since you've done is shoot down others' ideas. Let's see your own, for once. Give us other options besides "no"

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Do you have anything meaningful to contribute to the conversation, or are you just going to try to argue with anyone who proposes a solution? Why don't you tell us what your solution to the problem is? Or do you consider 20 dead kids and 6 dead teachers an acceptable price to pay for the 2nd Amendment?

I think the disagreement some of us have is that no one has really proposed a solution. "Solutions" have been offered, but it's been demonstrated they have no practical effect on the violence. We've tried registration. We've banned assault rifles. We've implemented waiting periods. None of them have caused the violence to stop, or even decrease in any sort of meaningful way.

Notwithstanding the disjointed nature of Michael Moore's recent writing on the subject, I do agree with him in one respect. These types of events are really not a result of gun laws, or lack thereof. It's entirely a culture thing.

We are a violent culture. It's in our tv, movies, games. We get it wall to wall in our news coverage. As Moore described in his Columbine movie, it's a culture of fear and dread. Everything is reported to us breathlessly, "Oh my god, here is what happened today." And we eat it up.

These "solutions" of removing objects from the retail market, or requiring the completion of just so many more government forms, are nonsense in terms of actually trying to find a true solution.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

We are a violent culture. It's in our tv, movies, games. We get it wall to wall in our news coverage. As Moore described in his Columbine movie, it's a culture of fear and dread. Everything is reported to us breathlessly, "Oh my god, here is what happened today." And we eat it up.

These "solutions" of removing objects from the retail market, or requiring the completion of just so many more government forms, are nonsense in terms of actually trying to find a true solution.

Not a "solution", but something that would be helpful would be for the media to never report the name of the shooter in these cases. In many cases this is a way (in their messed up head) for them to become famous. A poor anology would be how they no longer show steakers on tv and the instances of it happening seems to have dropped.

 

[Rover]

I think the disagreement some of us have is that no one has really proposed a solution. "Solutions" have been offered, but it's been demonstrated they have no practical effect on the violence. We've tried registration. We've banned assault rifles. We've implemented waiting periods. None of them have caused the violence to stop, or even decrease in any sort of meaningful way.

Disagree with this in that violence in this country is down considerably, especially murder, over the last 30 years. Unless someone is a freakonomics idiot, a lot of that can be explained by better policing. Gun control is a part of that amongst other factors.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Not a "solution", but something that would be helpful would be for the media to never report the name of the shooter in these cases. In many cases this is a way (in their messed up head) for them to become famous. A poor anology would be how they no longer show steakers on tv and the instances of it happening seems to have dropped.

Agree with this, but I think at this point anyone would have a tough time convincing the ****ing media to do it.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

We are a violent culture. It's in our tv, movies, games.

Ban all boob tubes!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Not a "solution", but something that would be helpful would be for the media to never report the name of the shooter in these cases. In many cases this is a way (in their messed up head) for them to become famous. A poor anology would be how they no longer show steakers on tv and the instances of it happening seems to have dropped.

Actually, it is a good solution. Many people in our country have a desperate desire for attention. Why does attendance at a hockey game go up when it is locally broadcast by video? Simple: They want to be on TV!

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Not a "solution", but something that would be helpful would be for the media to never report the name of the shooter in these cases. In many cases this is a way (in their messed up head) for them to become famous. A poor anology would be how they no longer show steakers on tv and the instances of it happening seems to have dropped.

I posted the exact same thing in this thread yesterday morning. Why do I need Diane Sawyer sitting in Connecticut reporting on the "Tragedy at the Elementary School" like it was some made for tv movie? Report the incident, the name of the perp, let's move on.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

I posted the exact same thing in this thread yesterday morning. Why do I need Diane Sawyer sitting in Connecticut reporting on the "Tragedy at the Elementary School" like it was some made for tv movie? Report the incident, the name of the perp, let's move on.

And how is PMSNBC going to fill the remaining 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 30 seconds?

 

[unofan]

I think the disagreement some of us have is that no one has really proposed a solution. "Solutions" have been offered, but it's been demonstrated they have no practical effect on the violence. We've tried registration. We've banned assault rifles. We've implemented waiting periods. None of them have caused the violence to stop, or even decrease in any sort of meaningful way.

We have registration with a loophole you can drive a mac truck through. We let the assault weapons ban expire. The waiting period is still in effect, and it's at least arguable it cuts down on the impulse crimes it's meant to prevent.

I don't think those are as solid evidence against gun control as you hope.

 

[walrus]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Since you refuse to propose any fixes, you leave us no alternative but to assume you're fine with the status quo since you've done is shoot down others' ideas. Let's see your own, for once. Give us other options besides "no"

I have a fix, get folks the mental health treatment they need, that's where the problem is