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2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

Bob Gray said:
fun to see all his media supporters try to spin this as positively as they can, which isn't an easy chore.
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Now we know how you felt after Dubya's debates. :D

The irony is the Liberal Media is saying Obama lost, which the Echo Chamber never admitted when Dubya lost.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

ScoobyDoo said:
No, it's not. But cutting funding to PBS isn't going to either. The last Republican that was in there signed sweeping expensive legislation, and cut taxes. And now we're all sitting around wondering why the deficit ballooned. And Romney is proposing EXACTLY the same thing.
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Why should the government continue to fund PBS when we're having trillion dollar budget deficits? I know it's a tiny portion of the budget, but Romney did have a point here - how can we justify all of these tiny projects when we're sending future generations into debt over them? PBS gets the vast majority of its funding from donations and advertising already. They just need to shore up the budget or find a way to get more revenue.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

MaizeRage said:
Saying 'I like teachers' compared with what he's actually proposed isn't a flip-flop, it's lip service. That's basically how Mitt "won" last night. He tried to say anything and everything he could to tell people what they wanted to hear, whether it could be backed up or not. Obama showed up for the debate in Denver, Mitt showed up in Fantasy Land.

The one I'm really surprised hasn't gotten more traction is champion of the common man Mitt's big zinger about how he needs to fire his accountant for not telling him about the tax breaks for all the jobs he's been shipping overseas(although technically you just get the tax break for the costs of closing down your American facilities). That's hilarious that Mitt could have actually been paying less in taxes all this time! Way to contribute to unemployment by putting that CPA out of a job, Obama.
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Thank you for proving my original stance on these debates.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

Tiggsy said:
So debt is piling up just because? Why didn't Obama do something about it when he had complete control of Congress? You can place blame for where issues originated any where you like, but there comes a point where no matter what you bear some responsibilty for not fixing things everyone knows are problems [emphasis added]
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+1
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

St. Clown said:
Why should the government continue to fund PBS when we're having trillion dollar budget deficits? I know it's a tiny portion of the budget, but Romney did have a point here - how can we justify all of these tiny projects when we're sending future generations into debt over them? PBS gets the vast majority of its funding from donations and advertising already. They just need to shore up the budget or find a way to get more revenue.
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Fine by me. Cut PBS funding and then up the fees on the telecomm industry for renting the public airwaves. I'm sure our principled deficit hawks will all support that.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Sure, but politics is best.
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The key, though, is to know the difference between forums. I went to a social event, and some guy was trying to spew the political debate stuff at me that he saw me type on Facebook. That was not the place for it.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

FreshFish said:
Hmm....from the evidence I've seen, most of the tampering comes with paper ballots. The easiest and most popular is marking and inserting paper ballots into the voting box before the polls even open, or to "run out" of ballots before the polls close and then "bring in more" many of which conveniently happen already to be marked. This is difficult if not impossible to prove since so many different people could have done it, and also because the people who are supposed to police the polls also are complicit (like the Democrat attorney general is going to investigate the Democrat secretary of state over an election won by the new Democrat governor? yeah, right....). A similar method involves having people enter the voting booth with several ballots in their pocket which they then pull out and slide into the ballot box along with the legitimate original. Again, nearly impossible to prove. (absence of proof is not proof of absence). If you hang out in the right circles with the right people and slip a few drinks into them and then get them reminiscing about the old days, it can be quite instructive, even if the statute of limitations has long expired.
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The best way to deal with your examples is to have oversight at the local level by members of both parties. The more people with disparate interests involved, the less likely they are to be able to conspire. Obviously, there are limits that end up being imposed by the willingness of the very top level folks to respond, but that's a given in absolutely any system that you might contemplate.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

Kepler said:
up the fees on the telecomm industry for renting the public airwaves.
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That's the germ of a good idea, and frankly it's something I expected from Mitt and didn't get. I thought Romney did not take advantage of the openings he was given last night, especially when it comes to the deficit. You'd think a private equity guy, who scours company balance sheet looking for under-utilized assets, would point out how many sweetheart deals are given to companies with friendly Senators when it comes to below-market leases for oil, gas, timber, grazing, etc. Mitt tangentially alluded to it when he referenced how oil and gas production is up on private land but down on federal property (one of his better lines; "it's up despite your policies not because of them") but again, Mitt did not give us the business person's reform of government monstrosity that would resonate with ordinary people.

I mean, Charles Grodin's character in Dave did it perfectly, and he was just a "typical" accountant. You'd think a private equity guru could do a lot better!

Saying Romney "won" the debate is like saying the Patriots won only by kicking a few field goals while the other team kept fumbling the ball. Romney was adequate, Obama below average. Now they are back to dead heat. Nothing decided.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

MaizeRage said:
Saying 'I like teachers' compared with what he's actually proposed isn't a flip-flop, it's lip service. That's basically how Mitt "won" last night. He tried to say anything and everything he could to tell people what they wanted to hear, whether it could be backed up or not. Obama showed up for the debate in Denver, Mitt showed up in Fantasy Land.

The one I'm really surprised hasn't gotten more traction is champion of the common man Mitt's big zinger about how he needs to fire his accountant for not telling him about the tax breaks for all the jobs he's been shipping overseas(although technically you just get the tax break for the costs of closing down your American facilities). That's hilarious that Mitt could have actually been paying less in taxes all this time! Way to contribute to unemployment by putting that CPA out of a job, Obama.
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You never have a problem with Obama talking fantasy, so it's totally hypocritical to just rail on Romney for saying unrealistic things. Realistically, every presidential candidate says lots of things they'll never be able to do. It's part of the unreality of the dance between American politicians and the American public. But, Obama does it with the best of them, at least when he's on his game, like 4 years ago he was.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

FlagDUDE08 said:
The key, though, is to know the difference between forums. I went to a social event, and some guy was trying to spew the political debate stuff at me that he saw me type on Facebook. That was not the place for it.
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Regardless of your views, it's probably good advice to always sling political and religious poo from the comfort of your keyboard. That way it doesn't come to blows once everyone's blood stops boiling.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

Kepler said:
Now we know how you felt after Dubya's debates. :D

The irony is the Liberal Media is saying Obama lost, which the Echo Chamber never admitted when Dubya lost.
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Dubya was up against Gore and Kerry. None of them did well in the debates, or are good debaters, so both sides spun it their way.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Regardless of your views, it's probably good advice to always sling political and religious poo from the comfort of your keyboard. That way it doesn't come to blows once everyone's blood stops boiling.
Click to expand...

Believe me, I learned that one the hard way.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

St. Clown said:
Why should the government continue to fund PBS when we're having trillion dollar budget deficits? I know it's a tiny portion of the budget, but Romney did have a point here - how can we justify all of these tiny projects when we're sending future generations into debt over them? PBS gets the vast majority of its funding from donations and advertising already. They just need to shore up the budget or find a way to get more revenue.
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Cause its BS?

When the Republicans correct their funding mistake for the two wars, NCLB, and Medicare Prescription "D" come talk to me. When they pay for the Bush Tax Cuts come talk to me. When they pay for the oil subsidies they refuse to give up come talk to me.

I'm open to slashing it all. You can start with Medicare and Social Security which are the biggest joke on the American people of all.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!

Lots going on here. Good stuff.

The notion that this race is now 'even' needs to be confirmed with some polls. Romney presented well, but 1) had no memorable lines, and 2) didn't cover anything new except for a new tax plan which he'll need to unveil if he indeed isn't going to cut taxes for the wealthy. As has been said, he needs to say how this is going to happen and Obama missed an easy layup when Mittens said "make up a number" for the deductions limit.

You can have a bad debate but that doesn't necessarily shift the dynamics of the race as Mondale learned after a well received performance in '84 (the first debate).
 
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