2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vacante

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

According to Gallup's approval-disapproval, the bump has peaked.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Righties, if you want to prove you're grade A scumbags, be my guest. Lets count em up:

First up, Fishy: who posts a made up news story based on a faulty premise (Biden has publically ID'd the Seal Team members who offed Bin Laden) on 9/11 and then launches into an anti-Obama rant about how he did this to enhance his election chances, when in fact the public ID of the soldiers never actually happened. You finish in 1st Place in the Scumball Race.

Coming in 2nd is Flag, who has no problem using this day to repeat a lie because hey, somebody ran with the story (Fox News) so call the grieving family and talk to them.

Finally pulling up the rear is geezer, with the ol' "oh yeah, well....you did it too!". No, I didn't for the record exploit 9/11 to bash Bush. While I didn't think he should have been fundraising over it, his leadership in the ensuing days after the tragedy was quite good.

Let me ask you something: What do you believe we are remembering, and what do you believe we should accomplish through this remembrance?

Typical libstain emotion argument, where the grieving family is always the victim no matter what. Look, I know how difficult it can be; I've had sudden loss of family members, and it's a tough wake-up call. I know that everyone has their own period for not only trying to keep a memory, but looking forward in their own lives. No one is asking them to get over it because that's not going to happen, but life does go on, and the best thing that we can do is learn from our history of what happened to ensure that something of that terrible nature does not happen again, assuming that it is preventable.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Let me ask you something: What do you believe we are remembering, and what do you believe we should accomplish through this remembrance?

Typical libstain emotion argument, where the grieving family is always the victim no matter what. Look, I know how difficult it can be; I've had sudden loss of family members, and it's a tough wake-up call. I know that everyone has their own period for not only trying to keep a memory, but looking forward in their own lives. No one is asking them to get over it because that's not going to happen, but life does go on, and the best thing that we can do is learn from our history of what happened to ensure that something of that terrible nature does not happen again, assuming that it is preventable.

All well and good, but none of this has anything to do with the slander going around. What you seem to be saying is 1) we should use 9/11 to remember to be vigilant. Fine, no argument there. 2) We should point out any instances of non-vigilance. Okay, fine. But where you fall of the cliff is 3) We should use this day to launch baseless attacks on our political enemies (Fishy's attempt to use a falsehood to claim the Obama admin released the names of the Special Forces who killed OBL and put them and their families lives in danger to bolster his re-election campaign. Lets take his exact quote "yes but if it helps get Obama re-elected then their sacrifice will be worth it, right? because the single most important issue we face today is that the US would fall into ruinous ****ation without Obama in charge for four more years, eh?"

So if you want to use 9/11 as a call to never let it happen again, be my guest but let me kindly suggest not piggybacking on a false argument by an irrational poster to do so.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

All well and good, but none of this has anything to do with the slander going around. What you seem to be saying is 1) we should use 9/11 to remember to be vigilant. Fine, no argument there. 2) We should point out any instances of non-vigilance. Okay, fine. But where you fall of the cliff is 3) We should use this day to launch baseless attacks on our political enemies (Fishy's attempt to use a falsehood to claim the Obama admin released the names of the Special Forces who killed OBL and put them and their families lives in danger to bolster his re-election campaign. Lets take his exact quote "yes but if it helps get Obama re-elected then their sacrifice will be worth it, right? because the single most important issue we face today is that the US would fall into ruinous ****ation without Obama in charge for four more years, eh?"

So if you want to use 9/11 as a call to never let it happen again, be my guest but let me kindly suggest not piggybacking on a false argument by an irrational poster to do so.

FreshFish's comments are FreshFish's comments. If you want to question the validity of the statement, go for it; that's not only not my war, but also something where I don't intend on taking a stance. Where I had an issue this entire time was your belief that we can't discuss it because of the coincidence of a calendar date. To remember a terrible historic event in a good way is to learn from its mistakes; I'm glad you and I can agree with that. If we want to discuss opening ourselves to our enemies, whether it's done by Biden, Rove, Assange, a spaghetti monster, whomever it may be, there's no better time to look for guidance on the situation than on a day we paid for a similar mistake.

 

[unofan]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

With enough capital

Thanks for making my point.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Seeing as most of the GOPers and tons of Dems argued til their face was blue to not give 9/11 First Responders health care I think they should all shut their mouths and leave 9/11 alone.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

"Gunny" Ermey encourages the troops to get "election ready."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vZbZ7TKY6mw

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

"Gunny" Ermey encourages the troops to get "election ready."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vZbZ7TKY6mw

Even if it's an act, non-partisan = I approve.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Even if it's an act, non-partisan = I approve.

Voting absentee, overseas, isn't easy. I assume it's easier now. The problem is deadlines. Deadlines by which the applications have to be submitted. Deadlines by which the ballots are mailed. And deadlines by which they have to be returned. I voted absentee from Cook County, which means I have no idea if my vote was counted. I had to vote in a room, in the presense of, but out of the sight of an NCO, who then endorsed the ballot envelope before I sent it on its way.

We passed a law a couple of years ago requiring better handling of military votes (especially overseas) and I'm not overly confident we're doing a better job of it than we used to. We need to get the percentage of GI's who vote up, even if those votes are generally not determinative of the outcome. It's the principle of the thing.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Voting absentee, overseas, isn't easy. I assume it's easier now. The problem is deadlines. Deadlines by which the applications have to be submitted. Deadlines by which the ballots are mailed. And deadlines by which they have to be returned. I voted absentee from Cook County, which means I have no idea if my vote was counted. I had to vote in a room, in the presense of, but out of the sight of an NCO, who then endorsed the ballot envelope before I sent it on its way.

We passed a law a couple of years ago requiring better handling of military votes (especially overseas) and I'm not overly confident we're doing a better job of it than we used to. We need to get the percentage of GI's who vote up, even if those votes are generally not determinative of the outcome. It's the principle of the thing.

I've heard rumours that those votes are typically blocked because of the process.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Seeing as most of the GOPers and tons of Dems argued til their face was blue to not give 9/11 First Responders health care I think they should all shut their mouths and leave 9/11 alone.

Are you saying health care at the cost of anyone but them?

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Are you saying health care at the cost of anyone but them?

What are you talking about? It's like a couple thousand people that were in the towers on 9/11 who inhaled a crapload of asbestos and other crap while trying to save lives. We've got more current and former living congressmen who vote lifetime free health care and other benefits for themselves and their families. I think we can afford this.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

What are you talking about? It's like a couple thousand people that were in the towers on 9/11 who inhaled a crapload of asbestos and other crap while trying to save lives. We've got more current and former living congressmen who vote lifetime free health care and other benefits for themselves and their families. I think we can afford this.

By now, you should realise that there's no such thing as a free lunch. You say that members of Congress have free health care, but it isn't truly free. It may be at no cost to them, but someone still has to pay for it. We do, unless you're part of the 48% of Americans that don't pay income taxes, or you're part of the large percentage of adults or able-to-work teenagers that don't pay medicare tax through payroll. Unless I placed a ring on that person's finger, or half of their body contains my DNA, I am not paying for their personal necessities or luxuries.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

So, we're back to being against providing Health Care for survivors of 9/11? And we're ok with providing it to Congress?

Awesome.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

So, we're back to being against providing Health Care for survivors of 9/11? And we're ok with providing it to Congress?

Awesome.

9/11 widows and first responders are almost as greedy as teachers.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

By now, you should realise that there's no such thing as a free lunch. You say that members of Congress have free health care, but it isn't truly free. It may be at no cost to them, but someone still has to pay for it. We do, unless you're part of the 48% of Americans that don't pay income taxes, or you're part of the large percentage of adults or able-to-work teenagers that don't pay medicare tax through payroll. Unless I placed a ring on that person's finger, or half of their body contains my DNA, I am not paying for their personal necessities or luxuries.

Flag, you're preaching to the wrong people. Go into a firehouse in NYC and spread your anti-first responser gospel. See you when (if) you make it back.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

I just say let's be consistent. If we pull healthcare for folks like 9/11 responders...we should do likewise for military personel. Heros are heros.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

By now, you should realise that there's no such thing as a free lunch. You say that members of Congress have free health care, but it isn't truly free. It may be at no cost to them, but someone still has to pay for it. We do, unless you're part of the 48% of Americans that don't pay income taxes, or you're part of the large percentage of adults or able-to-work teenagers that don't pay medicare tax through payroll. Unless I placed a ring on that person's finger, or half of their body contains my DNA, I am not paying for their personal necessities or luxuries.

This may be your dumbest argument to date. And that would be saying something.


Imagine had those guys said "NO! We're not going in there until we sit down and hammer out an agreement to protect ourselves from any possible harm that may result from us doing this job."

They acted assuming the good faith of a nation to take care of them. And we are obligated, willingly I might add, to do just that.

It's always convenient to wear a flag on your lapel until it's time to back that up with action.

I keep seeing the wounded warrior project commercials and I'm thinking that maybe the government that sent these men and women into battle should take care of their rehab rather than private donors. I must be a socialist.

Great post "FLAG" Dude!

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Are you saying health care at the cost of anyone but them?

No I am saying the people who ran into the buildings to save people should get their health care for free...especially considering many of them have lingering issues today. (up to and including cancer) Screw the partison bullcrap and raise the tax money to help these people. There is no excuse not to, none. In fact in my mind it is unpatriotic, certainly more than the crap both parties pretend is unpatriotic like flag pins.

This should have never been an issue...that the media and people ignored it until the Daily Show spent a week ripping both sides of Congress for it (including having first reponders on now who cant get health care because of the illness they suffered) and that the GOP blocked it and the Dems were to spineless too fight for it shows this country and its "citizens" are all talk and no action. Bunch of frauds...

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

I just say let's be consistent. If we pull healthcare for folks like 9/11 responders...we should do likewise for military personel. Heros are heros.

We don't?