2012 Presidential Election Part 4

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

"Only thing that can go wrong is the counting machine."

Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

(It does have the advantage of allowing a real recount, none of this "let's go back and print the results again" BS that happens with no-paper-trail systems.)

Unfortunately, it also means an election insider with ties to the Black Panthers can put your name on the kill list for not giving your vote to the messiah dictator.

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

So glad I still vote a paper, "fill-in-the-bubble with black ink" ballot. No hanging chads, no sloppy programming bugs. Only thing that can go wrong is the counting machine.

AK introduced online absentee ballot submission this year. Holy crap is that going to be a Charlie Foxtrot. The instructions are ridiculously convoluted (login and download PDF ballot and certification form from a portal site, vote, then re-upload completed ballot and certification form at the portal site with a very specific filename on each.) I was fine with them, but I imagined some 90-year-old sourdough staring at his Packard-Bell computer box thingy trying to figure them out and cringed.

I split the difference. Got my ballot e-mailed to me, completed it, printed it, and mailed it in. Simple PDF with clickable bubbles and a voter certification sheet that required a signature/witness. Seemed to work and print fine, it said I voted for who I voted for.

Nice idea and would really get out the youth vote, but given this is the state that produced a US Senator who believed the Internet was a series of tubes, I anticipate a hot mess and about 500,000 votes for Nyan Cat.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Unlike Nevada, where they truly were and are rigged. http://politichicks.tv/2012/10/voter-machine-in-las-vegas-auto-checking-obama/

It's always a good idea to check your ballot before you submit it. Just like with punchcards, there was always a sign right on the voting booth that suggested you make certain all the "chips" are punched through.

While it's possible machine malfunctions in Nevada (or anywhere else) are the result of chicanery, my first instinct is to blame ordinary screwups (Occam's Razor). While I guess it may be possible to rig an electronic machine to register phony votes, I'm not convinced that it would be possible to "fix" enough machines so as to significantly undercount one candidate and overcount another, all in the same election.

Thousands of machines would be needed. And the "fixer" would need to know which rigged machines were going to which precinct. If you were "fixing" the election for Obama,you wouldn't want to send an "overcount" machine to a Romney precinct. Or an "undercount" machine to an Obama precinct. Such a scheme would require an enormous number of people and machines. I'm not saying it's impossible. Just not as easy as some suggest.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Can you negotiate with this man??

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

It's always a good idea to check your ballot before you submit it. Just like with punchcards, there was always a sign right on the voting booth that suggested you make certain all the "chips" are punched through.

While it's possible machine malfunctions in Nevada (or anywhere else) are the result of chicanery, my first instinct is to blame ordinary screwups (Occam's Razor). While I guess it may be possible to rig an electronic machine to register phony votes, I'm not convinced that it would be possible to "fix" enough machines so as to significantly undercount one candidate and overcount another, all in the same election.

Thousands of machines would be needed. And the "fixer" would need to know which rigged machines were going to which precinct. If you were "fixing" the election for Obama,you wouldn't want to send an "overcount" machine to a Romney precinct. Or an "undercount" machine to an Obama precinct. Such a scheme would require an enormous number of people and machines. I'm not saying it's impossible. Just not as easy as some suggest.

Union workers count the votes.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Union workers count the votes.

Alone?

 

[unofan]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

The Economist's take on Voter ID laws:

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...good-democracy-counting-voters-counting-votes

The money line:

More candid Republicans might admit that these laws are all just part of the turnout game that both sides play. They help Republicans, just as generous absentee- and early-voting laws help Democrats. But a qualitative difference exists between laws that encourage citizens to take part in choosing their rulers and laws that discourage them from doing so.

 

[burd]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Like Kevin Bacon in "Animal House": "Remain calm. All is well"

HA! That would be the same Kevin Bacon who refused to defend George Bush for ordering Code Red!

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

The Economist's take on Voter ID laws:

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...good-democracy-counting-voters-counting-votes

The money line:

Hysterical bull shiza. There is zero empirical evidence that voter ID laws "discourage" anyone from voting. Except for the dead, the criminal, the unregistered, the illegal, the ineligible and the multiple. It's a fantasy.

74% in the WaPo poll (including 65% of African Americans) and 70% in the NYT poll support voter ID.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

HA! That would be the same Kevin Bacon who refused to defend George Bush for ordering Code Red!

"You can't handle the truth."

Somehow Chip went from being an Army ROTC cadet to a Marine lawyer.

 

[burd]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

"You can't handle the truth."

I can but you have to tell it nicely.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Hysterical bull shiza. There is zero evidence that voter ID laws "discourage" anyone from voting. Except for the dead, the criminal, the unregistered, the illegal, the ineligible and the multiple. It's a fantasy.

Have you ever spent time at the DMV?

It's not a fantasy. If someone is borderline on whether they are going to vote or not, and they don't have an approved ID (certainly there are millions of people without such ID that are eligible to vote), my guess is that a voter ID law would "discourage" that person from voting. Now, in addition to having to go through the hassle of voting, they have to forge out another hour (or more) of their day to get ID that they otherwise would not care about...that person probably isn't voting. For someone to argue otherwise would simply do nothing more than to show how out of touch with reality someone is.

That being said, I'm fine with Voter ID laws, but the state must:
1) Implement the laws well in advance of when they would be effective (say 4 years)
2) Allow free Voter IDs to anyone that wants them if they do not have one of the other acceptable IDs
3) Have Voter IDs available at election sites on the day of the election, so those without ID would simply get their ID and then vote (and make it a quick/easy/reliable process)
4) Allow provisional ballots for anyone that does not have a voter ID

 

[unofan]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Hysterical bull shiza. There is zero empirical evidence that voter ID laws "discourage" anyone from voting. Except for the dead, the criminal, the unregistered, the illegal, the ineligible and the multiple. It's a fantasy.

74% in the WaPo poll (including 65% of African Americans) and 70% in the NYT poll support voter ID.

Yeah, because The Economist is known for its hysterical, hyper-liberal rants. Why it's a cousin to the NY Times, dontcha know.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Have you ever spent time at the DMV?

It's not a fantasy. If someone is borderline on whether they are going to vote or not, and they don't have an approved ID (certainly there are millions of people without such ID that are eligible to vote), my guess is that a voter ID law would "discourage" that person from voting. Now, in addition to having to go through the hassle of voting, they have to forge out another hour (or more) of their day to get ID that they otherwise would not care about...that person probably isn't voting. For someone to argue otherwise would simply do nothing more than to show how out of touch with reality someone is.

That being said, I'm fine with Voter ID laws, but the state must:
1) Implement the laws well in advance of when they would be effective (say 4 years)
2) Allow free Voter IDs to anyone that wants them if they do not have one of the other acceptable IDs
3) Have Voter IDs available at election sites on the day of the election, so those without ID would simply get their ID and then vote (and make it a quick/easy/reliable process)
4) Allow provisional ballots for anyone that does not have a voter ID

We could also send cabs around to pick people up, so they could register on election day, get an ID card on election day, then vote on election day. Oh, and we'd give 'em a ride home, too.

Here's a prediction: No matter how the presidential election turns out. Those who claim they would support these laws if they were implemented "sufficiently in advance" will find another excuse to oppose them, and another and another. Of the many demographic groups broken out in the WaPo poll on this matter, the only one opposed was self described "liberal Democrats." Exactly.

"Out of touch with reality" is my middle name, Bunky.

How many of those "millions" of people who don't have an ID and don't have time to wait in line at the DMV because of their busy schedules are employed, or retired, or dead, or illegal, or felons?

Evidently those who oppose voter ID laws don't want even the most basic and common sense efforts to ensure the integrity of our elections.

 

[brookyone]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Have you ever spent time at the DMV?

That being said, I'm fine with Voter ID laws, but the state must:
1) Implement the laws well in advance of when they would be effective (say 4 years)
2) Allow free Voter IDs to anyone that wants them if they do not have one of the other acceptable IDs
3) Have Voter IDs available at election sites on the day of the election, so those without ID would simply get their ID and then vote (and make it a quick/easy/reliable process)
4) Allow provisional ballots for anyone that does not have a voter ID

Outstanding proposals effectively eliminating the big scary voter fraud monster. Loaded with common sense. Granted, not a highly valued or remotely popular commodity among fans of Hisdon'twantthemblacksorpoororhispanicsvotingness.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Outstanding proposals effectively eliminating the big scary voter fraud monster. Loaded with common sense. Granted, not a highly valued or remotely popular commodity among fans of Hisdon'twantthemblacksorpoororhispanicsvotingness.

Only the ones who are ineligible to vote: non-citizens, unregistered, dead, multiple votes cast, criminals, etc. Everyone else is free to head on down to their local polling place. I understand this year they're giving away hams.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

It's always a good idea to check your ballot before you submit it. Just like with punchcards, there was always a sign right on the voting booth that suggested you make certain all the "chips" are punched through.

While it's possible machine malfunctions in Nevada (or anywhere else) are the result of chicanery, my first instinct is to blame ordinary screwups (Occam's Razor). While I guess it may be possible to rig an electronic machine to register phony votes, I'm not convinced that it would be possible to "fix" enough machines so as to significantly undercount one candidate and overcount another, all in the same election.

Thousands of machines would be needed. And the "fixer" would need to know which rigged machines were going to which precinct. If you were "fixing" the election for Obama,you wouldn't want to send an "overcount" machine to a Romney precinct. Or an "undercount" machine to an Obama precinct. Such a scheme would require an enormous number of people and machines. I'm not saying it's impossible. Just not as easy as some suggest.

This is why I always get amused by the claims of ballot fraud that various paranoid losers throw out at every election.

At worst, you'll see the usual shenanigans of attempting to give incorrect polling location to people (happened to me while I was at school), but actually fixing the votes cast is one hell of an undertaking.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

There has been ballot fraud in every election in the US since the Republic was born (and probably before). We know Mayor Daley I did shenanigans in 1960 to ensure Illinois went to JFK. We know Tammany Hall would wait for the upstate ballots to come in to see what margin was needed to make FDR governor. There was the ballot box shenanigans with LBJ in Texas. We know the Democratic party did everything it could to supress black vote prior to the Civil Rights Acts.

Look, the Democrats are good at voter fraud. They've made it an art form. I'm envious.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

This is why I always get amused by the claims of ballot fraud that various paranoid losers throw out at every election.

At worst, you'll see the usual shenanigans of attempting to give incorrect polling location to people (happened to me while I was at school), but actually fixing the votes cast is one hell of an undertaking.

Plus it can be good old fashioned human error. I've told the story of voting in Baton Rouge and the nice lady ahead of me pulled open the curtain on her booth to ask the guy a question. He was about to let her go back in and vote when I pointed out that she already had. Pulling that lever to open the curtain registered whatever choices she had made. I don't think either one of them was trying to cheat. But allowing her to go back in there could have meant two votes from one person. Just to put a point on it: Nixon lost to Kennedy by an average of 1 vote per precinct nationwide.

The trouble comes in close votes. A couple of cycles ago Christine Gregoire was announced as having lost the gubernatorial race in Washington state. And a recount confirmed it. Then, magically, some trays of votes were "found" in the Democratic strong hold of King County that put her narrowly over the top. We saw the same shenanigans (a truly great word) in a recent Minnesota senate race. And many others.

The vast majority of Americans have and are repeatedly asked to present, proof of their identity. And reputable polls indicate the vast majority of us don't consider proving who we are when we vote to be an onerous burdon. And we can provide ID cards to all who qualify and want them. I've posted before about the lead plaintiff in Pennsylvania who, when their voter ID law was initially upheld, toddled on down to her local DMV (she's in her 90's with less than perfect documentation, had to ride the bus with a transfer) and strolled out with a state ID card.

I have no idea how much voter fraud there is. But logic dictates there has to be some. I'm amusing by opponants of Voter ID who claim there is next to none. How would they know? To me, voter ID laws provide a bit of a disincentive to would-be cheaters.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

There has been ballot fraud in every election in the US since the Republic was born (and probably before). We know Mayor Daley I did shenanigans in 1960 to ensure Illinois went to JFK. We know Tammany Hall would wait for the upstate ballots to come in to see what margin was needed to make FDR governor. There was the ballot box shenanigans with LBJ in Texas. We know the Democratic party did everything it could to supress black vote prior to the Civil Rights Acts.

Look, the Democrats are good at voter fraud. They've made it an art form. I'm envious.

There's a reason he was known as "Landslide Lyndon." There's a reason why Dick Daley was the first person JFK invited to spend the night in the Lincoln bedroom.

As I've mentioned, once Teddy White (author of the "Making of the President" series) was asked on network TV what he thought about eliminating the electoral college and substituting the popular vote. Without hesitating, he said: "What, and turn the election of the President of the United States over to those crooks in Texas and Illinois?" An interesting observation, given his support for JFK.