Golden Tuuk
Registered User
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
I think it will be similar, except the sue won't score as much.
I think it will be similar, except the sue won't score as much.
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2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
- Thread starter dave1381
- Start date
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
Is this the new PC name I should be using nowadays?
Is this the new PC name I should be using nowadays?
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
To Dave....Said it last year, and will say it again.....The wealth of knowledge you share with those of us not as well versed in the pairwise ranking and bracketology methodologies is very much appreciated, so us more mere mortals in this subject can follow along....Kudos to you and a big thank you.
To Dave....Said it last year, and will say it again.....The wealth of knowledge you share with those of us not as well versed in the pairwise ranking and bracketology methodologies is very much appreciated, so us more mere mortals in this subject can follow along....Kudos to you and a big thank you.
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
I for one am fairly relieved that Cornell won't be facing Carmen McDonald next saturday. Can't say that the prospect of playing any of the other 7 remaining teams doesn't give me some anxiety, but at this stage of the season that's the way its suppose to be. I can't wait for the quarterfinals to begin!
I for one am fairly relieved that Cornell won't be facing Carmen McDonald next saturday. Can't say that the prospect of playing any of the other 7 remaining teams doesn't give me some anxiety, but at this stage of the season that's the way its suppose to be. I can't wait for the quarterfinals to begin!
Nowheresville
Registered User
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
Is the flight vs. bus criteria for the Womens tourney the same or similar to the mens? Or are they more willing to bus womens teams over long distances?
It would be my guess that even if the committee thought Mercyhurst "earned" the 5 seed, they sent them to Madison to save money. The distance from Madison to Erie is basically the same as the distance from Madison to Grand Forks. Both are 600 mile trips and I'd guess they'd be looking at a bus since its just a single weekend game. If so, there wouldn't be a single flight for the entire bracket, right?
Is the flight vs. bus criteria for the Womens tourney the same or similar to the mens? Or are they more willing to bus womens teams over long distances?
It would be my guess that even if the committee thought Mercyhurst "earned" the 5 seed, they sent them to Madison to save money. The distance from Madison to Erie is basically the same as the distance from Madison to Grand Forks. Both are 600 mile trips and I'd guess they'd be looking at a bus since its just a single weekend game. If so, there wouldn't be a single flight for the entire bracket, right?
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
One other thought -- if last year's bracket were formed with the same logic used by this committee, would've been it any different? I don't think so. Things just kind of worked out nicely this year with little controversy. Last year, once the teams were set, the committee's hands were really tied. Could they have sent Mercyhurst to Wisconsin last year too? Probably not, because UMD-Wisconsin saved a flight, and UMD would've been sent to BU instead.
With Mercyhurst-Wisconsin being the only flight, it is the cheapest bracket there ever has been, and it's another year where the NCAA really made sure to avoid travel. It worked out mostly nicely this year and everyone was resigned to the UND-Minnesota. It's not great news, if say, we do ever get 4 WCHA teams in the bracket, 2 hosting, and we end up with half the NCAA quartefinals being a WCHA tourney retread.
One other thought -- if last year's bracket were formed with the same logic used by this committee, would've been it any different? I don't think so. Things just kind of worked out nicely this year with little controversy. Last year, once the teams were set, the committee's hands were really tied. Could they have sent Mercyhurst to Wisconsin last year too? Probably not, because UMD-Wisconsin saved a flight, and UMD would've been sent to BU instead.
With Mercyhurst-Wisconsin being the only flight, it is the cheapest bracket there ever has been, and it's another year where the NCAA really made sure to avoid travel. It worked out mostly nicely this year and everyone was resigned to the UND-Minnesota. It's not great news, if say, we do ever get 4 WCHA teams in the bracket, 2 hosting, and we end up with half the NCAA quartefinals being a WCHA tourney retread.
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
I haven't looked into this in a while but I think the NCAA would have to fly for either case. It's not the NCAA's decision what teams/leagues do before the tournament. And then bracket by NCAA law is supposed produce the fewest number of flights possible, and it seems like the clearly will be the case going forward.
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
You're welcome... should've recognized that the NCAA could get things down to one flight if BC hosted instead of Mercyhurst, but do what I can.
granddaddyscout
Registered User
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
Didn't realize anyone was b***n about MC, simply trying to explain the decision to send them to Madison. As far as this being evidence of the CHA getting stronger I don't see it. It appears more like MC has retreated from the elite stage due to graduation. MC is 25th in strength of schedule and they lost to Robert Morris who is 32nd in SOS. After MC of the NCAA bound teams Cornell is next with a 14th in SOS. We shall see next Saturday how improved they are!
Didn't realize anyone was b***n about MC, simply trying to explain the decision to send them to Madison. As far as this being evidence of the CHA getting stronger I don't see it. It appears more like MC has retreated from the elite stage due to graduation. MC is 25th in strength of schedule and they lost to Robert Morris who is 32nd in SOS. After MC of the NCAA bound teams Cornell is next with a 14th in SOS. We shall see next Saturday how improved they are!
granddaddyscout
Registered User
puckskillz
New member
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
Yes, Thank you again. For many of us it's too much to mine through the detail. Your posts are informative, timely, and cordial which is very much appreciated!!! You set a great standard for taking the "high road". Thx
With what just transpired this past weekend in the East, maybe we are in for some real surprises in the next couple of weekends.
Yes, Thank you again. For many of us it's too much to mine through the detail. Your posts are informative, timely, and cordial which is very much appreciated!!! You set a great standard for taking the "high road". Thx
With what just transpired this past weekend in the East, maybe we are in for some real surprises in the next couple of weekends.
Very interesting point. How many people realized it's 568 miles from Erie to Boston and 598 miles Erie to Madison?
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
And 585 miles from Grand Forks to Madison. Once out of the immediate area of the Northeast, there aren't that many bus-trip possibilities among the top teams.
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
Naturally Sisti not thrilled with the outcome: http://www.goerie.com/article/20120...women's-hockey-team-gets-NCAA-tournament-spot
To correct a common error, only teams 1-4 are seeded. Since last 4 are going to be so paired largely by geography going forward, this outcome really only tells what the committee thought of Mercyhurst compared to UND (note UND actually won that comparison). It tells us nothing about how the committee thought Mercyhurst compared to BU or SLU.
Naturally Sisti not thrilled with the outcome: http://www.goerie.com/article/20120...women's-hockey-team-gets-NCAA-tournament-spot
To correct a common error, only teams 1-4 are seeded. Since last 4 are going to be so paired largely by geography going forward, this outcome really only tells what the committee thought of Mercyhurst compared to UND (note UND actually won that comparison). It tells us nothing about how the committee thought Mercyhurst compared to BU or SLU.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
Can we conclude that? The process looks like: select field of eight, seed the top four, place remaining teams with an eye to reducing a) flights, and secondarily b) intraconference match ups. This really looks like more of what we saw last year in that regard. If UND was not going to fly, then it had to go to Minneapolis. Somebody was going to have to fly to Madison no matter what; nobody is inside of 500 miles, other than UM, another host.
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
If Minnesota is regularly 1-4 and UND regularly 5-8 going forward, and looks like this NCAA quarterfinal could be an annual event.
I would amend your list of priorities though: yes, reducing flights is clearly priority #1 now, just like it's always been written in the handbook but wasn't initially implemented in practice. There hasn't been much of a clear priority in reducing intraconference play since 06-07. But yes, I could still see them swapping teams if they were close. This year's East pairings were aligned with both avoiding intraconference play and bracket integrity within the East, so there's not a whole lot we can conclude about those two priorities this season.
Yeah, I just logged in to post that. Was still thinking Wisconsin-UND would've saved a flight which it doesn't.
If Minnesota is regularly 1-4 and UND regularly 5-8 going forward, and looks like this NCAA quarterfinal could be an annual event.
I would amend your list of priorities though: yes, reducing flights is clearly priority #1 now, just like it's always been written in the handbook but wasn't initially implemented in practice. There hasn't been much of a clear priority in reducing intraconference play since 06-07. But yes, I could still see them swapping teams if they were close. This year's East pairings were aligned with both avoiding intraconference play and bracket integrity within the East, so there's not a whole lot we can conclude about those two priorities this season.
Re: 2012 NCAA Selection Show: March 4th
And then looking at recent history...
2009 hosts: Wisconsin, Mercyhurst, Minnesota, UNH
opponents: Dartmouth, SLU, BC, UMD
Three flights here. Committee could have sent UMD to Minnesota and BC to UNH and been left with Wisconsin-Dartmouth as the flight, but it didn't happen. So tournament appears to have had much more flexibility as recently as 3 years ago.
In 2010, again we had three flights. UNH to UMD, BU to Mercyhurst, and Clarkson to Minnesota. In this case, there was nothing the NCAA could do to avoid three flights. But note that one QF was Harvard-Cornell, and that could've been easily avoided by sending Cornell to UMD and UNH to Harvard. So that is a year we can see a low priority on avoiding intraconference play.
In 2011, pairing Cornell with Dartmouth was the only way to avoid 4 flights, so it was done.
And now in 2012, we clearly have a case where Mercyhurst-Wisconsin is the only flight, and there may have been other brackets with better bracket integrity.
Now I think another way to look at it though --- do you realize how close teams 4 through 8 or so are in the RPI this year? Basically swap a result for any of those teams and they could move to the top or bottom of that range. If there were any year where the NCAA were justified in not flying teams all over in order to preserve "bracket integrity" it's this one, because outside the top 3, there really wasn't a whole lot of difference between the teams under consideration.... while if you compare this to a year like 2009, that's clearly much more egregious to send Duluth to Minnesota. So maybe the committee is still willing to break the bank in some extreme cases, but that's being optimistic.
And then looking at recent history...
2009 hosts: Wisconsin, Mercyhurst, Minnesota, UNH
opponents: Dartmouth, SLU, BC, UMD
Three flights here. Committee could have sent UMD to Minnesota and BC to UNH and been left with Wisconsin-Dartmouth as the flight, but it didn't happen. So tournament appears to have had much more flexibility as recently as 3 years ago.
In 2010, again we had three flights. UNH to UMD, BU to Mercyhurst, and Clarkson to Minnesota. In this case, there was nothing the NCAA could do to avoid three flights. But note that one QF was Harvard-Cornell, and that could've been easily avoided by sending Cornell to UMD and UNH to Harvard. So that is a year we can see a low priority on avoiding intraconference play.
In 2011, pairing Cornell with Dartmouth was the only way to avoid 4 flights, so it was done.
And now in 2012, we clearly have a case where Mercyhurst-Wisconsin is the only flight, and there may have been other brackets with better bracket integrity.
Now I think another way to look at it though --- do you realize how close teams 4 through 8 or so are in the RPI this year? Basically swap a result for any of those teams and they could move to the top or bottom of that range. If there were any year where the NCAA were justified in not flying teams all over in order to preserve "bracket integrity" it's this one, because outside the top 3, there really wasn't a whole lot of difference between the teams under consideration.... while if you compare this to a year like 2009, that's clearly much more egregious to send Duluth to Minnesota. So maybe the committee is still willing to break the bank in some extreme cases, but that's being optimistic.