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2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

ScoobyDoo said:
All Romney could do is tell everyone what a great businessman he was. Government doesn't run like a business. Never has, never will. That loses him the debate IMO.
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It's an elementary tenant of the Unexamined Republican Life that everything should be run like a business, and rich people were sent by God to redeem America from its Statist Sins. Romney repeating a talking point in a GOP debate doesn't hurt him. It's just righty antenna-touching.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Rover said:
While I'm no fan of Newtie, if somebody offered you 1.6M bucks to schmooze influential people, and it was all legal, tell me who would turn that down? Any one of those clowns on stage would jump at that immediately.
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That's called Crony Capitalism, what OWS (And tea party) should be trying to change via elections and change in our current corrupt laws-rules.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Tundra said:
That's called Crony Capitalism, what OWS (And tea party) should be trying to change via elections and change in our current corrupt laws-rules.
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The only laws the Teabaggers tried to change were the ones that outlawed racial discimination.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Handyman said:
Rover can apologize for Obama all he wants, but the second he passes This Law into existence he is dead to me. There is no denying now that Obama is a fraud. He is Bush who speaks better...nothing more.

There is not one person running for the White House who will improve this country.
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Are you insane? While I agree that Obama compromised with the Righties too much, there is no way that Bush would have given us the stimulus bill, health care, green energy, gay rights, and a good foreign policy. Ask all the soldiers coming home from Iraq if they noticed a difference (hint: one guy sent them to kill and die, the other brought them home.)
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

TimP said:
The only laws the Teabaggers tried to change were the ones that outlawed racial discimination.
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Award for dumbest post in this thread (so far) goes to you.

award_ribbon_red_1st.png
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

TimP said:
there is no way that Bush would have given us the stimulus bill, health care, green energy, gay rights, and a good foreign policy.
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I'm so glad to learn Obama solved "health care, green energy, gay rights" issues too. Here I thought all he did was sign off on GW Bush's stimulus bill plan, and follow GW Bush's Iraq withdrawal schedule down to the day, hour, and minute between tee times. so everything's good now thanks to O, huh? I'll tell my green, gay, and medically-trained friends to quit whining, then.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

geezer said:
I'm so glad to learn Obama solved "health care, green energy, gay rights" issues too. Here I thought all he did was sign off on GW Bush's stimulus bill plan, and follow GW Bush's Iraq withdrawal schedule down to the day, hour, and minute between tee times. so everything's good now thanks to O, huh? I'll tell my green, gay, and medically-trained friends to quit whining, then.
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Shhhh...dont tell him that ;)

signed,

Guy who hates Dubya
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

TimP said:
Are you insane? While I agree that Obama compromised with the Righties too much, there is no way that Bush would have given us the stimulus bill, health care, green energy, gay rights, and a good foreign policy. Ask all the soldiers coming home from Iraq if they noticed a difference (hint: one guy sent them to kill and die, the other brought them home.)
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I tell ya, no one kills a US citizen without a trial like Obama.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

TimP said:
Are you insane? While I agree that Obama compromised with the Righties too much, there is no way that Bush would have given us the stimulus bill, health care, green energy, gay rights, and a good foreign policy. Ask all the soldiers coming home from Iraq if they noticed a difference (hint: one guy sent them to kill and die, the other brought them home.)
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Tim's greater point is right on though. While Obama compromised too much with the right (including taking actions liberals do not like) and has made some serious missteps (healthcare)...Bush's disaster of Iraq, support of the use of the US Constitution to limit Americans rights and Dow 6600 were beyond compare for just about any past president.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

5mn_Major said:
Tim's greater point is right on though. While Obama compromised too much with the right (including taking actions liberals do not like) and has made some serious missteps (healthcare)...Bush's disaster of Iraq, support of the use of the US Constitution to limit Americans rights and Dow 6600 were beyond compare for just about any past president.
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Being a better president than Dubya is like being a better Mets GM than Omar Minaya: yes, I guess you can claim it, but it says much more about your predecessor than you. ;)

Obama hasn't reversed the damage to the Constitution under Bush, he's continued to institutionalize it. It would be worse under the Republicans since they don't appear to even distinguish between matters of Constitutional Law and matters of their own political convenience, but the current administration has been incredibly disappointing, considering it's led by a former Con Law professor. The right at least has an excuse: they think with their fists. Obama knew better -- we elected him to at least start to fix the damage to freedom and civil liberties.

It's true he has been an incredibly successful president in foreign policy: the most successful since FDR. Dubya left us with an international profile equal to the Empire of Japan circa 1940, and Obama has returned us to American imperial normalcy (a great power and by no means the nicest guy on the block, but not a psych ward candidate either). That's great and he gets full credit, particularly since the administration had no help on that at all from Congress -- they (including the DOS and DOD) did it all themselves.

But the continuing descent of America into a police state at home is terrifying and horrifying and it has to be stopped. There has always been an erosion of civil liberties during wartime. We are functionally "flexible" and our so-called freedoms don't usually stand up to external challenges -- there are just too many sheeple who want to hide under the bed for a vigorous defense of freedom. Our historical saving grace has been a reaction against those periods after the threat has been contained. That reaction is typically led by liberal intellectuals -- the very people who are persecuted by militarists and social conservatives during wartime. This ought to be happening now: terrorism is contained and even if there are effective terrorist attacks in the future nobody sane considers terrorism to be an existential threat to the US any longer. But even though Obama seems to be the perfect president to roll back the surveillance state he isn't. Unless he's followed by an authentic liberal Dem or a libertarian Republican we will have blown our chance to restore American civil values, and the next time a "cross and flag" yahoo gets in we will be in real trouble.
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

You act like Obama's actually made an effort to walk back Bush's excesses in civil liberties when in fact he's continued to extend and expand them. It's no longer even a choice between stupid and evil. Some of them are stupid, some of them aren't, but both parties are full of tools that no longer even pretend to have the best interests of the American people at hand, from signing in a law that allows American citizens to be picked up and held endlessly without trial to SOPA that they're trying again to sneak through over overwhelming public dissent to give them more legal power to censor and shut down the internet.

It's almost like they know the house of cards both here and in Europe is about to crash, and want all the t's crossed and i's dotted so they make sure protests on a Arab Spring level can be stifled online and beaten down by the military. But don't worry, American Idol will be on next month. Go back to your bread and circuses.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

ScoobyDoo said:
Ron Paul now leads in Iowa.

I'd say the GOP is in disarray.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/12/ron-paul-iowa-poll-money-bomb-/1
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Or maybe they are finally "in array." The thing about Paul is he stands up under scrutiny. All the other Not Mitts were paper dolls. Paul's biggest problem has been barriers to getting his message out.

This would be great. As good as it would feel to reward the GOP for finally returning to adulthood, punishing Obama for his craven collapses on Wall Street and indefinite detention would be a hundred times sweeter.

You have to imagine all the scumbuckets from FNC to Rush are on a conference call to figure out how to stop Paul. He's a real threat to their grifter operation. "Please, Caribou Barbie, save us!!!"
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Obama (and Bush II) or any President cannot detain American citizens indefinitely. Bush already tried that and the SCOTUS said no. Short of a Constitutional amendment, that practice will never be legal. While I haven't read the law itself, only the commentary about it, if it has a provision like this in it I wonder what the point is, because this too will get ruled unconstitutional. While I'll let the legal beagles comment, I don't think the ruling was even close. For reference I'm talking about the Chicago guy (Padilla or something?) who I believe was the subject of this ruling.

However, I do concur this is disappointing, but I'm curious if he's signing this due to his usual wishy-washyness, or because he knows it will get struck down in which case he can wash his hands of the whole thing. Either way, not one of his better moves.

Beyond that though, this Admin has 1) ended US torturing suspects, 2) reduced instead of added to Gitmo (which GOP STILL wants to do - see Sen Ayotte's comments about sending someome there just last week), and 3) put some of the remaining prisoners there on trail both using the federal and the military justice system. Yes its going slower than I'd like but again you can blame Congress (both parties in this case) for that. There's still no good answer on what to do with high level AQ operatives who you need to interrogate for useful intelligence before putting them through the legal system.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

bronconick said:
It's almost like they know the house of cards both here and in Europe is about to crash, and want all the t's crossed and i's dotted so they make sure protests on a Arab Spring level can be stifled online and beaten down by the military. But don't worry, American Idol will be on next month. Go back to your bread and circuses.
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Troops are coming back from the wars to no jobs, no freedom, and no future. They're going to be out there with OWS soon, or more likely they're going to be forming their own even more radical (and respected) movement. If the corporate types think they can pepper-spray them, there's a tale as old as time coming down the tracks.

The 1% have the same choice they have in every age: agree to half a loaf and keep sending your kids to Choate, or bluff it out and hope your handmaids in government and the media can keep the lid on. Enough of these cretins have smoked their own supply that they may make the suicidal choice. (Which will be terrible for all of us, BTW.)
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Kepler said:
Or maybe they are finally "in array." The thing about Paul is he stands up under scrutiny. All the other Not Mitts were paper dolls. Paul's biggest problem has been barriers to getting his message out.

This would be great. As good as it would feel to reward the GOP for finally returning to adulthood, punishing Obama for his craven collapses on Wall Street and indefinite detention would be a hundred times sweeter.

You have to imagine all the scumbuckets from FNC to Rush are on a conference call to figure out how to stop Paul. He's a real threat to their grifter operation. "Please, Caribou Barbie, save us!!!"
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There's going to plenty of legitimate material to work with.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

WeWantMore said:
There's going to plenty of legitimate material to work with.
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There's the racism charge, but that doesn't exactly hurt you in the GOP primaries as long as you talk in code about "troubled neighborhoods" or "dependency on the state." (Wyatt Cenak did a perfect piece on TDS a few nights ago, but I can't find it.) There's his unhinged ideas about the Fed, but that sort of language has permeated far right thinking for a long time, and a simple solution for a complex problem feeds their id.

We'll see what else there is (I'm not sure what else you're alluding to). You're 100% right that nothing digs up the bones like leading in a nomination race. It's also true that there is an entire industry feeding the right that's been built on, not to put too fine a point on it, wholesale lying, so whether or not there's real material, there will be plenty of fabricated material. Those people have a real good thing going, they aren't going to give it up without a fight.
 
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