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2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
- Thread starter dxmnkd316
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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
There's a lot of personal freedoms I read into this post and its also the specific driver of the criticism aimed at Obama. There's no question that's a big deal...but beyond that, Obama has done a decent to great job (economy/environment to foriegn policy) most of the remainder of issues . And yes, I see taking the country from the precipice to the current positive US outlook to be decent (and including the deficit, a productive overall approach). If Obama leaves office after 4 years, he will be seen in posterity as an above average president...I'd bet on that.
Being a better president than Dubya is like being a better Mets GM than Omar Minaya: yes, I guess you can claim it, but it says much more about your predecessor than you.
Obama hasn't reversed the damage to the Constitution under Bush, he's continued to institutionalize it. It would be worse under the Republicans since they don't appear to even distinguish between matters of Constitutional Law and matters of their own political convenience, but the current administration has been incredibly disappointing, considering it's led by a former Con Law professor. The right at least has an excuse: they think with their fists. Obama knew better -- we elected him to at least start to fix the damage to freedom and civil liberties.
It's true he has been an incredibly successful president in foreign policy: the most successful since FDR. Dubya left us with an international profile equal to the Empire of Japan circa 1940, and Obama has returned us to American imperial normalcy (a great power and by no means the nicest guy on the block, but not a psych ward candidate either). That's great and he gets full credit, particularly since the administration had no help on that at all from Congress -- they (including the DOS and DOD) did it all themselves.
But the continuing descent of America into a police state at home is terrifying and horrifying and it has to be stopped. There has always been an erosion of civil liberties during wartime. We are functionally "flexible" and our so-called freedoms don't usually stand up to external challenges -- there are just too many sheeple who want to hide under the bed for a vigorous defense of freedom. Our historical saving grace has been a reaction against those periods after the threat has been contained. That reaction is typically led by liberal intellectuals -- the very people who are persecuted by militarists and social conservatives during wartime. This ought to be happening now: terrorism is contained and even if there are effective terrorist attacks in the future nobody sane considers terrorism to be an existential threat to the US any longer. But even though Obama seems to be the perfect president to roll back the surveillance state he isn't. Unless he's followed by an authentic liberal Dem or a libertarian Republican we will have blown our chance to restore American civil values, and the next time a "cross and flag" yahoo gets in we will be in real trouble.
There's a lot of personal freedoms I read into this post and its also the specific driver of the criticism aimed at Obama. There's no question that's a big deal...but beyond that, Obama has done a decent to great job (economy/environment to foriegn policy) most of the remainder of issues . And yes, I see taking the country from the precipice to the current positive US outlook to be decent (and including the deficit, a productive overall approach). If Obama leaves office after 4 years, he will be seen in posterity as an above average president...I'd bet on that.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Why even take that chance though? It's a huge risk with little to no reward.
Why even take that chance though? It's a huge risk with little to no reward.
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Obama doesn't have the best political judgement which goes without saying. Think of it the same was as some of these unconstitutional illegal immigration laws. Arizona could have easily passed a law that left out the requirement for police to detain you if you look like you're an illegal and can't prove on the spot that you've a citizen. I'm sure the people advocating the law know this. However, it scores political points without having to actually deal with the ramifications of it being enacted. In this case, Obama gets to skirt a GOP attack line about national security, while not having to actually enforce this particular law. Mind you, he should have just vetoed the thing. The man clearly needs new advisors.
Obama doesn't have the best political judgement which goes without saying. Think of it the same was as some of these unconstitutional illegal immigration laws. Arizona could have easily passed a law that left out the requirement for police to detain you if you look like you're an illegal and can't prove on the spot that you've a citizen. I'm sure the people advocating the law know this. However, it scores political points without having to actually deal with the ramifications of it being enacted. In this case, Obama gets to skirt a GOP attack line about national security, while not having to actually enforce this particular law. Mind you, he should have just vetoed the thing. The man clearly needs new advisors.
Twitch Boy
Defacing this tagline is a MAX foul
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
When you see it you'll shiat bricks.
When you see it you'll shiat bricks.
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
lol. please tell me that was photoshopped.
When you see it you'll shiat bricks.
lol. please tell me that was photoshopped.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Hey, for all you Ron Paul loons out there, check this out:
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*** Those Paul newsletters: Ron Paul supporters often complain that their candidate doesn’t get enough media attention. But if they wanted him treated like a typical front-runner, they might see more coverage like today’s New York Times look at “decades-old unbylined columns in his political newsletters that included racist, anti-gay and anti-Israel passages that he has since disavowed.” One example: “A 1992 passage from the Ron Paul Political Report about the Los Angeles riots read, ‘Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks.’” Also: “A passage in another newsletter asserted that people with AIDS should not be allowed to eat in restaurants because ‘AIDS can be transmitted by saliva.’” And: “[O]ne of his publications criticized Ronald Reagan for having gone along with the creation of the federal holiday honoring the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., which it called ‘Hate Whitey Day.’” Paul has said that he didn’t write these things in his newsletter and that he disavows them. But just think all the scrutiny that Rick Perry got for that Texas ranch rock. These newsletters are just as problematic -- if not more so…
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Maybe its me, but shouldn't the man know what's going into his own newsletter? Yikes.
Hey, for all you Ron Paul loons out there, check this out:
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*** Those Paul newsletters: Ron Paul supporters often complain that their candidate doesn’t get enough media attention. But if they wanted him treated like a typical front-runner, they might see more coverage like today’s New York Times look at “decades-old unbylined columns in his political newsletters that included racist, anti-gay and anti-Israel passages that he has since disavowed.” One example: “A 1992 passage from the Ron Paul Political Report about the Los Angeles riots read, ‘Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks.’” Also: “A passage in another newsletter asserted that people with AIDS should not be allowed to eat in restaurants because ‘AIDS can be transmitted by saliva.’” And: “[O]ne of his publications criticized Ronald Reagan for having gone along with the creation of the federal holiday honoring the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., which it called ‘Hate Whitey Day.’” Paul has said that he didn’t write these things in his newsletter and that he disavows them. But just think all the scrutiny that Rick Perry got for that Texas ranch rock. These newsletters are just as problematic -- if not more so…
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Maybe its me, but shouldn't the man know what's going into his own newsletter? Yikes.
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
the thing is, that was all beaten to death 4 years ago, and none of it stuck with normal people. You and Foxton can warn us about Paul until you're blue in the face, but if it's a choice between Obama, Gingrich, or Paul, then Paul is our next president. Even if he runs independent.
the thing is, that was all beaten to death 4 years ago, and none of it stuck with normal people. You and Foxton can warn us about Paul until you're blue in the face, but if it's a choice between Obama, Gingrich, or Paul, then Paul is our next president. Even if he runs independent.
WeWantMore
New member
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Speaking of...
43/32/21 Obama/Gingrich/Paul. I'm kind of inclined to take the opposite view to yours, I think that poll dramatically overstates Paul's support.
I personally don't believe Paul wrote the letters, or that he agrees with what's in them. But to Rover's point, the newsletters made him near to $1 million. Either he knew the content and allowed it, or didn't and is too clueless to be president in my opinion.
I also wonder about lefties like Stewart and Maher who push Paul. Do they simply not know about the letters?
Speaking of...
43/32/21 Obama/Gingrich/Paul. I'm kind of inclined to take the opposite view to yours, I think that poll dramatically overstates Paul's support.
I personally don't believe Paul wrote the letters, or that he agrees with what's in them. But to Rover's point, the newsletters made him near to $1 million. Either he knew the content and allowed it, or didn't and is too clueless to be president in my opinion.
I also wonder about lefties like Stewart and Maher who push Paul. Do they simply not know about the letters?
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
None of it stuck 4 years ago because he spent $2 million per pledged delegate and he was widely ignored by the media on the rare occasion that his support slipped past 5%.
If he actually gets on the ballot and can hang in financially, it would be interesting to see where he draws support from.
None of it stuck 4 years ago because he spent $2 million per pledged delegate and he was widely ignored by the media on the rare occasion that his support slipped past 5%.
If he actually gets on the ballot and can hang in financially, it would be interesting to see where he draws support from.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
And given your description, that'll probably get Romney even higher.
To lighten the mood a little, this has to be the worst political logo I've ever seen.
It looks like an ad for a cheap, terrible light beer.
(I know, I know...)
And given your description, that'll probably get Romney even higher.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Those newsletter words are ugly, but no more ugly than a thousand racist tactics under GOP bylines for decades. That kind of casual coded racism was the mother's milk of the Reaganites, but somehow nobody thought that Reagan was either a racist or "too clueless to be president".
The knucks of all people suddenly getting PC religion and concern-trolling about racism is the funniest thing to come out of this. Keep trying, folks. Maybe people will forget the last fifty years.
The lesson: if you open up a newsletter to right wing cranks you're going to get a fair amount of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, religious intolerance, and sexism because that's how the far right rolls.
Those newsletter words are ugly, but no more ugly than a thousand racist tactics under GOP bylines for decades. That kind of casual coded racism was the mother's milk of the Reaganites, but somehow nobody thought that Reagan was either a racist or "too clueless to be president".
The knucks of all people suddenly getting PC religion and concern-trolling about racism is the funniest thing to come out of this. Keep trying, folks. Maybe people will forget the last fifty years.
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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
No offense, but if its Obama, Gingrich, Paul he gets re-elected in a landslide. Can you imagine the debates? Newtie and Loony try to out do each other while Obama struggles to keep a straight face. Paul as an independent will struggle to achieve 5% of the vote, and its all coming from the GOP candidate. Normal people weren't paying attention because Paul is a fringe lunatic. Let him start rising in polls and watch how fast people look at this stuff.
Moving on, I wonder what the latest Iowa polls say about the GOP's chances in the general election. Any candidate worth his salt ought to be able to out campaign Ron Paul, who's act got tired years ago. If they can't do that, how the hell are they going to beat Obama there?
No offense, but if its Obama, Gingrich, Paul he gets re-elected in a landslide. Can you imagine the debates? Newtie and Loony try to out do each other while Obama struggles to keep a straight face. Paul as an independent will struggle to achieve 5% of the vote, and its all coming from the GOP candidate. Normal people weren't paying attention because Paul is a fringe lunatic. Let him start rising in polls and watch how fast people look at this stuff.
Moving on, I wonder what the latest Iowa polls say about the GOP's chances in the general election. Any candidate worth his salt ought to be able to out campaign Ron Paul, who's act got tired years ago. If they can't do that, how the hell are they going to beat Obama there?
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Secondly, they aren't paying attention to Huntsman, either, and they did pay attention to Bachmann. It has nothing to do with whether a candidate is a fringe lunatic, it's the self-fulfilling prophesy of whoever network news decides to cover. The left press is actually giving a fair amount of attention to Paul. The Echo Chamber stonewalls him because every time he gets a mic in his hands he speaks over their heads to conservatives and refutes their Orwellian worldview.
You are right about one thing, though. If Paul runs as a third party candidate Obama wins the election in a landslide. If Paul somehow won the Republican nomination and drove around in the Popemobile so that some Lockheed-Martin contractor didn't shoot him, we have no idea of what would happen -- it breaks all the models.
First of all, "normal people" don't pay attention to any candidate until October.
Secondly, they aren't paying attention to Huntsman, either, and they did pay attention to Bachmann. It has nothing to do with whether a candidate is a fringe lunatic, it's the self-fulfilling prophesy of whoever network news decides to cover. The left press is actually giving a fair amount of attention to Paul. The Echo Chamber stonewalls him because every time he gets a mic in his hands he speaks over their heads to conservatives and refutes their Orwellian worldview.
You are right about one thing, though. If Paul runs as a third party candidate Obama wins the election in a landslide. If Paul somehow won the Republican nomination and drove around in the Popemobile so that some Lockheed-Martin contractor didn't shoot him, we have no idea of what would happen -- it breaks all the models.
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unofan
Well-known member
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
It tells us nothing. Remember, Iowa went for Mike freaking Huckabee 4 years ago. You can lose the nomination in Iowa with a poor showing. You can't win it, though.
It tells us nothing. Remember, Iowa went for Mike freaking Huckabee 4 years ago. You can lose the nomination in Iowa with a poor showing. You can't win it, though.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Disagree on the Huckabee thing. With a bit more funding he could have been the nominee. Ron Paul winning Iowa would be the equivalent of Lyndon Larouche winning for the Dems. If the Dem field couldn't out poll him in any given state, I'd be real worried about my choices for the nomination. Same concept applies here.
Disagree on the Huckabee thing. With a bit more funding he could have been the nominee. Ron Paul winning Iowa would be the equivalent of Lyndon Larouche winning for the Dems. If the Dem field couldn't out poll him in any given state, I'd be real worried about my choices for the nomination. Same concept applies here.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?
Paul is scaring the party apparatus now. That's good. "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." The RNC is transitioning from stage one to stage two. They are going to get really, really nasty if they ever reach stage three.
That wasn't the Huckabee problem. He looked good on paper but the moment he opened his mouth he was sunk. Hereafter to be known as the Rick Perry Problem.
Paul is scaring the party apparatus now. That's good. "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." The RNC is transitioning from stage one to stage two. They are going to get really, really nasty if they ever reach stage three.
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