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2012 Elections in 3-D!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Priceless
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Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

So...

Many states regulate the heating or gas market. In Minnesota, Xcel energy is regulated to make sure it approaches its business as efficiently as possible and charges what is necessary for a profit margin. It works exceptionally well. Would it be so harmful to say that <1% of our economy (oil) has a marketplace that's broken...afterall a commodity should not be resulting into the most profitable industry in history. That the industry is monitored by the people to make sure that its resources are not wasted (massive PR campaigns to influence public opinion), the profit margins are set at necessary rather than extravagant levels...and prices are lowered for the other 99% of economy and cutting a huge part of costs of US citizens. What am I missing here?
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

WeWantMore said:
Who cares what kind of cars people want to drive? If they're okay with paying for it, more power to them.
Click to expand...

don't cry when gas is $5,$6,$7,$8 a gallon

the whole SUV fad dumped millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere just so people could show off. Don't you think that is a little silly?
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

Kepler said:
I'm pretty sure he meant mpg, not mph. The only way I can imagine getting a Prius to 136 mph is to drop it from the Gateway Arch.
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Right.

I don't know what I would find more satisfying: The engineering marvel at getting a Prius to 136 mph or seeing a Prius dropped from the Arch.
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

BassAle said:
don't cry when gas is $5,$6,$7,$8 a gallon

the whole SUV fad dumped millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere just so people could show off. Don't you think that is a little silly?
Click to expand...

And yet with China firing up a new coal plant every month it probably doesn't matter what we do. /sticks head in sand
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

BassAle said:
don't cry when gas is $5,$6,$7,$8 a gallon
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No, I totally agree with you here. But gas prices have an impact on more than just people who drive more car than they need and then ***** about it. They're not hauling food to grocery stores in Priuses. That stuff matters too, and thus I think concerns about gas prices like the ones walrus has raised are totally legitimate.
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

dxmnkd316 said:
A model engine. Taken apart frequently and cleaned. Unreasonable to expect? You do realize we're talking about passenger vehicles, in rush hour traffic, with most people too stupid to have their oil changed regularly? You're not living in an ideal world. You're living in a fantasy world. I'm sorry. Not much else I can say there....
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Are you saying that the concept of "prototype" or "working scale model" are alien to your thinking?

You ask a question, you get a serious answer, and then you pretend you really meant to ask a different question all along? and you call that conversation?

Are you suggesting you'd rather be smug and self-satisfied because close-mindedness and ridicule are so much fun for you?
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

FreshFish said:
Are you saying that the concept of "prototype" or "working scale model" are alien to your thinking?
Click to expand...
No more than you seem to be ignoring the *differences* between a prototype and a product. You seem to think these are minor technical details, when in reality they constitute 95% of the issues. Nobody disputes that you can get great mileage out of a prototype, so what exactly is your point?
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

WeWantMore said:
Who cares what kind of cars people want to drive? If they're okay with paying for it, more power to them.
Click to expand...

agree.

LOL, you have no clue about Keweenaw winters. Foxton, I've been driving in snow since before you were born. and you live in town, in Marquette, where you don't get half the snow we do. we don't always drive the truck to hockey but we do need a four wheel drive. its not unusual to come home to 12 or more inches with 40 mph winds whipping off Lake Superior and the plows have not been out. then its half a mile through the woods to reach the house. just the thought of it makes me homesick!!
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

Bob Gray said:
Shhhhh......

You'll bursting their carefully crafted bubble.
Click to expand...

Well, we should be doing things to improve our own emissions and not just *****ing about other countries. That said, I think it would be far better to focus on improved carbon capture technologies rather than tell people what cars to buy. Carbon capture can be applied across the board far more easily than telling 300 million people what kind of car to buy. Add to that the sheer variety of types of car and what their purpose is, and you're really asking for a battle.

How much CO2 does an average-sized coal plant fire out in terms of number of an "average" car? Honest question. I'd guess it would be far more efficient to capture a single large source of CO2 than thousands of small, mobile sources.
 
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Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

dxmnkd316 said:
That said, I think it would be far better to focus on improved carbon capture technologies rather than tell people what cars to buy. Carbon capture can be applied across the board far more easily than telling 300 million people what kind of car to buy. Add to that the sheer variety of types of car and what their purpose is, and you're really asking for a battle.

How much CO2 does an average-sized coal plant fire out in terms of number of an "average" car? Honest question. I'd guess it would be far more efficient to capture a single large source of CO2 than thousands of small, mobile sources.
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that's where a thoughtful, well-designed cap and trade plan might work well, or perhaps a carbon tax. you want to use our air to carry your emissions away? okay, then pay to use it that way! either / both could be viable solution to the two classic problems from economics regarding market failure: the "problem of the commons" and "the free-rider problem."

However, expecting either party in this day and age to develop a thoughtful, well-designed plan? the Dummycrats would have too much centralized command-and-control and would squander / misuse the money buying votes from favored constitutencies, while the Repugnicans? who knows what they would do these days!


Regarding improved carbon capture technologies, I do think something plant-based is by far our best bet. photosynthesis works so much better already than anything we might devise. Maybe bio-engineered algae or something? who knows? that's one of the beauties of a free market system, you provide an economic incentive and let creative geniuses go to work. no one could possibly predict what might result, since the outcome of widely-dispersed collaboration is so often different than anything any one person possibly could envision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant
 
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Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

FreshFish said:
that's where a thoughtful, well-designed cap and trade plan might work well, or perhaps a carbon tax. you want to use our air to carry your emissions away? okay, then pay to use it that way! either / both could be viable solution to the two classic problems from economics regarding market failure: the "problem of the commons" and "the free-rider problem."

However, expecting either party in this day and age to develop a thoughtful, well-designed plan? the Dummycrats would have too much centralized command-and-control and would squander / misuse the money buying votes from favored constitutencies, while the Repugnicans? who knows what they would do these days!
Click to expand...

Cap and trade is the last thing I want. I'd rather see incentives to companies that develop these technologies (working designs), something similar to the DARPA contests. Hell, I wouldn't mind tax incentives to companies that are early adopters of the technologies either. (And yes, I honestly believe there is a difference between imposing a new, across the board tax and an incentive, maybe that's a screwed up way of looking at things, but it's just the way I see it.)
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

huskyfan said:
agree.

LOL, you have no clue about Keweenaw winters. Foxton, I've been driving in snow since before you were born. and you live in town, in Marquette, where you don't get half the snow we do. we don't always drive the truck to hockey but we do need a four wheel drive. its not unusual to come home to 12 or more inches with 40 mph winds whipping off Lake Superior and the plows have not been out. then its half a mile through the woods to reach the house. just the thought of it makes me homesick!!
Click to expand...

Then maybe you should move closer to civilization :p
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

Bob Gray said:
Shhhhh......

You'll bursting their carefully crafted bubble.
Click to expand...

Hey Bob, chancing subjects...

You live in Arizona, so I hold you partially responsible for the fact that the Colorado river no longer reaches the ocean.
http://video.patagonia.com/video/Chasing-Water

People's life choices impact our world, and we owe it to future generations to at least _try_. Just because China is building more and more coal power plants doesn't give us a free pass.
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

I love that when Santorum tried to explain at the debate the other night why he supported Magic Bullet Man back in 2004 he was roundly booed by the audience. You can't explain things to these people. They jeered a US soldier and cheered someone dying for crying out loud. When Romney attacks him for something, don't respond, just attack back. You don't have to answer any questions anyway - Romney himself said so!
 
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