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2012 Elections in 3-D!

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Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

FreshFish said:
We already have CO[SUB]2[/SUB] capture widely available. They are called "trees" and "bushes." They remove CO[SUB]2[/SUB] from the atmosphere and turn it into a material called "wood."
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do you think they possibly capture all of the carbon dioxide we are releasing that has been locked up in the earth for millions of years? The natural carbon cycle of the Earth does not include releasing all of this stored carbon within a few hundred years.
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

FreshFish said:
My preferred solution would be to use a constant speed internal combustion motor to power an electric generator and then use that generator to power the car. Prototypes have been built that get something like 110 mpg.
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so basically a Volt with no batteries?
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

huskyfan said:
some of us live in areas where there is no public transportation and we need trucks to plow or haul wood or an SUV to get to a hockey game. me, for instance.
I couldn't even make hockey on one Volt charge.
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how many people have a plow on their big *** truck? or haul their own wood? the vast MINORITY of truck owners. If you NEED an SUV to get to a hockey game you probably need to move somewhere there isn't any snow because you are a terrible driver. If all you are worried about is driving in the snow, you can get a subaru impreza with AWD and get 36 MPG (not awesome, but better than 18MPG in your SUV).
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

FreshFish said:
The internal combustion engine can be tuned to efficiency of around 65% or so, I think (using memory not research), as long as it runs at a constant speed. The problem with car engines is that they run at variable speeds and so cannot possibly be tuned for nearly as much efficiency. A finely-tuned constant-speed internal combustion engine running a generator is probably a better model than a battery-powered car.

Our problem is too much centralization. A much better power grid would have individual houses each generating their own solar power, for example, rather than try to have any centralized green energy generation source feed into the grid.
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You do know that a premium efficiency electric motor is into the high 90s for efficiency right?
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

BassAle said:
how many people have a plow on their big *** truck? or haul their own wood? the vast MINORITY of truck owners. If you NEED an SUV to get to a hockey game you probably need to move somewhere there isn't any snow because you are a terrible driver. If all you are worried about is driving in the snow, you can get a subaru impreza with AWD and get 36 MPG (not awesome, but better than 18MPG in your SUV).
Click to expand...

An Impreza? lol. I'll take a truck over an Impreza 99 times out of 100 for snow handling. The flexibility a truck offers in the midwest is almost a must. Between trips up north and hauling random crap around I've found myself saying I wish I had a truck a couple times a week now.
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

BassAle said:
large powerplants are more efficient at generating energy than millions of small IC engines (which are pretty inefficient).
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This.

The economies of scale for an industrial power turbine (still technically an internal combustion engine, BTW) absolutely dwarf the losses for electricity transmission, etc.
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

Who cares what kind of cars people want to drive? If they're okay with paying for it, more power to them.
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

BassAle said:
do you think they possibly capture all of the carbon dioxide we are releasing that has been locked up in the earth for millions of years? The natural carbon cycle of the Earth does not include releasing all of this stored carbon within a few hundred years.
Click to expand...

I would agree that cutting down the Amazon rain forest is not the ideal way to go about doing things. However, yes, I do think that with some ingenuity we can use plants to capture carbon in a far more efficient way than by using some synthetic chemical or industrial process with yet-undetermined side effects and unintended consequences. Where do you think the fossil fuels we are burning originally came from, anyway? :rolleyes:

We are too obsessed with finding top-down centralized solutions for problems that are best tackled by using widespread de-centralized technologies.
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

BassAle said:
so basically a Volt with no batteries?
Click to expand...

I think it was Volvo who built the prototype, not sure off-hand. Sort of like a golf cart with a lawn mower engine but one that burns much more cleanly. Reportedly great for city driving, meh for long highway trips (unless you really like admiring the scenery!)
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

FreshFish said:
I think it was Volvo who built the prototype, not sure off-hand. Sort of like a golf cart with a lawn mower engine but one that burns much more cleanly. Reportedly great for city driving, meh for long highway trips (unless you really like admiring the scenery!)
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Anyone can build a 100+ mpg vehicle - until you also add requirements for speed, acceleration, safety, ground clearance, weatherproofness, number of seats, cargo capacity, etc.

Real world 100 mph (equivalent) will never be achieved by a vehicle with an on-board internal combustion engine. The hypermiling record for a Prius is only 136 mph (and that involves driving illegally - rolling through stops, etc).
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

dxmnkd316 said:
Says the guy who quoted a combustion engine that is perfectly tuned and operates at a single speed.
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I agree with you that well-designed electric motors are ideal for urban and suburban mass transit, like subways and commuter trains, where you have a continuous power supply that does not need to be re-charged periodically.

Regarding a perfectly tuned internal combustion engine that operates at a single speed, yes, I've used one for years to power model airplanes and boats. You would be amazed at how long one of them can run on a very small supply of gasoline. Of course, I also take the engine apart frequently to clean it and lubricate it, which is unreasonable to expect from the average person. I used to tune my own car engines and clean the spark plugs regularly back when a person could do that without needing a special diagnostic computer to read all the electronics.

It seems that there is no single 'one size fits all solution' that will work. Different people have different needs at different times that are best addressed by different solutions. No centralized planning approach will ever come up with an optimal across-the-board solution.


It seems weird to me that people would be sniping when there seems to be a broad consensus that the current automobile engine is not very efficient. If there's no disagreement on the major point at hand, we are offering supplementary and complementary pieces of a bigger picture.
 
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Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

LynahFan said:
Anyone can build a 100+ mpg vehicle - until you also add requirements for speed, acceleration, safety, ground clearance, weatherproofness, number of seats, cargo capacity, etc.

Real world 100 mph (equivalent) will never be achieved by a vehicle with an on-board internal combustion engine. The hypermiling record for a Prius is only 136 mph (and that involves driving illegally - rolling through stops, etc).
Click to expand...

The thought of this makes me laugh hysterically. ;)
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

FreshFish said:
We already have CO[SUB]2[/SUB] capture widely available. They are called "trees" and "bushes." They remove CO[SUB]2[/SUB] from the atmosphere and turn it into a material called "wood."
Click to expand...

Wait a minute. I thought trees caused polution? (lets see who's old enough to remember that one.):D
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

FreshFish said:
yes, I've used one for years to power model airplanes and boats. You would be amazed at how long one of them can run on a very small supply of gasoline. Of course, I also take the engine apart frequently to clean it and lubricate it, which is unreasonable to expect from the average person. \
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A model engine. Taken apart frequently and cleaned. Unreasonable to expect? You do realize we're talking about passenger vehicles, in rush hour traffic, with most people too stupid to have their oil changed regularly? You're not living in an ideal world. You're living in a fantasy world. I'm sorry. Not much else I can say there...

The electric motors I'm talking about are on a variable frequency drive and can be absolutely massive in size.
 
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

FreshFish said:
I would agree that cutting down the Amazon rain forest is not the ideal way to go about doing things. However, yes, I do think that with some ingenuity we can use plants to capture carbon in a far more efficient way than by using some synthetic chemical or industrial process with yet-undetermined side effects and unintended consequences. Where do you think the fossil fuels we are burning originally came from, anyway? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

The fossil fuels we are burning were formed over millions of years and we are dumping all of that carbon into the atmosphere in a couple centuries. Our forests (which we are also cutting down) can't absorb carbon at the rate we are releasing it.
 
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