Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
That was directed at the UNH fan. But I suppose it fits Vermont as well.
That was directed at the UNH fan. But I suppose it fits Vermont as well.
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2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
- Thread starter Cat lover
- Start date
What a solid, entertaining weekend of hockey that was!
Solid no! Entertaining yes...
HOCKEYGUY23
New member
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
This is beyond bantering back and forth. This program is at a real crossroads. There are alot of things to consider. Look who is always near the top of the league standings, BU, BC, UNH. We get a team that has a run, Mack right now, but its dominated by the big three. Look what they all have, the best facilities. Has anyone seen ND new digs, ridiculous. Burlington has more the offer then Durham, but the Gutt doesn't compare. Until the administration decides to be a big boy, they will enjoy an uptick here and there, but not be consistent.
Secondly, the staff needs to figure it out and perhaps make changes within the staff. Even the year after they made the frozen four, they were barely above 500. They are getting some decent players but those players aren't developing. Why? There seems to be a regression in alot of players and that's an issue.
Also, what is the system we play? It seems we change to whatever the opposition is? Why can't we say this is us, this is how we play, beat us? Instead we change based on what teams do. We should play and be who we are and see what other teams do so that the coaches can position our players to find weaknesses in other teams by utilizing what we do well.
Lastly, we need leadership. I think Leonard is a great example of leadership, but if the coaches won't play him, I am sure his leadership falls on deaf ears. Also, Lenz took the dumbest penalty Friday and dressed Saturday. How is that possible. He would have sat by my standards to let the team know what is and what isn't acceptable.
Coach can say what he says, but he needs to step up and mean it. Seems like guys get suspended for off ice crap, and that crap is probably no different then other schools, but our guys get suspended immediately. Get over the hazing crap from the past! Quit being over protective. Are we going to go overboard the other way now? How about benching a kid for a dumb penalty, instead of every minor infraction. This is hurting the program.
This is beyond bantering back and forth. This program is at a real crossroads. There are alot of things to consider. Look who is always near the top of the league standings, BU, BC, UNH. We get a team that has a run, Mack right now, but its dominated by the big three. Look what they all have, the best facilities. Has anyone seen ND new digs, ridiculous. Burlington has more the offer then Durham, but the Gutt doesn't compare. Until the administration decides to be a big boy, they will enjoy an uptick here and there, but not be consistent.
Secondly, the staff needs to figure it out and perhaps make changes within the staff. Even the year after they made the frozen four, they were barely above 500. They are getting some decent players but those players aren't developing. Why? There seems to be a regression in alot of players and that's an issue.
Also, what is the system we play? It seems we change to whatever the opposition is? Why can't we say this is us, this is how we play, beat us? Instead we change based on what teams do. We should play and be who we are and see what other teams do so that the coaches can position our players to find weaknesses in other teams by utilizing what we do well.
Lastly, we need leadership. I think Leonard is a great example of leadership, but if the coaches won't play him, I am sure his leadership falls on deaf ears. Also, Lenz took the dumbest penalty Friday and dressed Saturday. How is that possible. He would have sat by my standards to let the team know what is and what isn't acceptable.
Coach can say what he says, but he needs to step up and mean it. Seems like guys get suspended for off ice crap, and that crap is probably no different then other schools, but our guys get suspended immediately. Get over the hazing crap from the past! Quit being over protective. Are we going to go overboard the other way now? How about benching a kid for a dumb penalty, instead of every minor infraction. This is hurting the program.
Last edited:
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
I agree that something is amiss and Sneddon has had almost 10 years. I don't think the barn is the issue but it might help some. A rink like UNH or slightly larger would be perfect. I was looking back at Sneddon's record at Union and it was nothing special. Leaman did just as well if not better. As I have said before there is no offensive creativity on these teams. 90% of the offense is rushes up the ice and 10% is creating chances by controlling the puck in the offensive zone. It is almost like they never practice how to set up plays in the zone (which is also reflected in the PP). Stalburg, Brickley and Reynolds are skilled but it is always as if they are taking on the whole defense by themselves. I also wonder about all the conflicts with and suspensions of players. Again something is not right.
I hate to be critical of coaches as it is a tough job and as someone mentioned it is not like the NHL where if you pick up someone who doesn't work out you can't just trade or release them. But at the same token this is D1 hockey that is ultra competitive and we are not where we should be at this stage and the blame has to go somewhere. I have not been thrilled with Sneddon from the start. Might be time for a change for the sake of change. It is working for NU, PC and I hate to say it but UML as well.
What are the odds St Louis would come back as a coach? Granted he has no coaching experience and just because you play doesn't mean you can coach but consider the battles to succeed he has faced throughout his career. I would think he would be great coach and motivator as well as Canadian recruiter. Just a thought as he is nearing retirement.
This is beyond bantering back and forth. This program is at a real crossroads. There are alot of things to consider. Look who is always near the top of the league standings, BU, BC, UNH. We get a team that has a run, Mack right now, but its dominated by the big three. Look what they all have, the best facilities. Has anyone seen ND new digs, ridiculous. Burlington has more the offer then Durham, but the Gutt doesn't compare. Until the administration decides to be a big boy, they will enjoy an uptick here and there, but not be consistent.
Secondly, the staff needs to figure it out and perhaps make changes within the staff. Even the year after they made the frozen four, they were barely above 500. They are getting some decent players but those players aren't developing. Why? There seems to be a regression in alot of players and that's an issue.
Also, what is the system we play? It seems we change to whatever the opposition is? Why can't we say this is us, this is how we play, beat us? Instead we change based on what teams do. We should play and be who we are and see what other teams do so that the coaches can position our players to find weaknesses in other teams by utilizing what we do well.
Lastly, we need leadership. I think Leonard is a great example of leadership, but if the coaches won't play him, I am sure his leadership falls on deaf ears. Also, Lenz took the dumbest penalty Friday and dressed Saturday. How is that possible. He would have sat by my standards to let the team know what is and what isn't acceptable.
Coach can say what he says, but he needs to step up and mean it. Seems like guys get suspended for off ice crap, and that crap is probably no different then other schools, but our guys get suspended immediately. Get over the hazing crap from the past! Quit being over protective. Are we going to go overboard the other way now? How about benching a kid for a dumb penalty, instead of every minor infraction. This is hurting the program.
I agree that something is amiss and Sneddon has had almost 10 years. I don't think the barn is the issue but it might help some. A rink like UNH or slightly larger would be perfect. I was looking back at Sneddon's record at Union and it was nothing special. Leaman did just as well if not better. As I have said before there is no offensive creativity on these teams. 90% of the offense is rushes up the ice and 10% is creating chances by controlling the puck in the offensive zone. It is almost like they never practice how to set up plays in the zone (which is also reflected in the PP). Stalburg, Brickley and Reynolds are skilled but it is always as if they are taking on the whole defense by themselves. I also wonder about all the conflicts with and suspensions of players. Again something is not right.
I hate to be critical of coaches as it is a tough job and as someone mentioned it is not like the NHL where if you pick up someone who doesn't work out you can't just trade or release them. But at the same token this is D1 hockey that is ultra competitive and we are not where we should be at this stage and the blame has to go somewhere. I have not been thrilled with Sneddon from the start. Might be time for a change for the sake of change. It is working for NU, PC and I hate to say it but UML as well.
What are the odds St Louis would come back as a coach? Granted he has no coaching experience and just because you play doesn't mean you can coach but consider the battles to succeed he has faced throughout his career. I would think he would be great coach and motivator as well as Canadian recruiter. Just a thought as he is nearing retirement.
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
What I saw this weekend was a bunch of kids with no confidence and a group of freshman that are starting to digress. That is not a ringing endorsement for this coaching staff. Agreed that coaches need to be consistent in the way they discipline players. That is one of the biggest problems I have seen in the program in recent years is that kids are held to different and often moving standards on the team. Shouldn't matter if you are a first round pick, CEO's kid or not,Senior, Junior...if you don't play well, you get to sit next game. Even some of the freshman have gotten too comfortable on this team. As I said before, I think Sneddon has what it takes but I think its time for some new blood around him.
What I saw this weekend was a bunch of kids with no confidence and a group of freshman that are starting to digress. That is not a ringing endorsement for this coaching staff. Agreed that coaches need to be consistent in the way they discipline players. That is one of the biggest problems I have seen in the program in recent years is that kids are held to different and often moving standards on the team. Shouldn't matter if you are a first round pick, CEO's kid or not,Senior, Junior...if you don't play well, you get to sit next game. Even some of the freshman have gotten too comfortable on this team. As I said before, I think Sneddon has what it takes but I think its time for some new blood around him.
Catamount90
New member
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
so when does sneddon get fired???
so when does sneddon get fired???
Martin St. Louis Fan
Section 21 at the GUT !
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
Great for Connor, maybe not good for the Cat's
http://uvmathletics.com/news/2011/12/5/MHOCKEY_1205114159.aspx
Great for Connor, maybe not good for the Cat's
http://uvmathletics.com/news/2011/12/5/MHOCKEY_1205114159.aspx
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
That was pathetic. Another 3 minute blow up by the team. Worse part of game was watching McKensie get beat to puck with an empty net and 2 man advantage. Says everything about the team right now. worst game so far by freshman D...really bad and again we cant score unless we have a 2 man advantage.
That was pathetic. Another 3 minute blow up by the team. Worse part of game was watching McKensie get beat to puck with an empty net and 2 man advantage. Says everything about the team right now. worst game so far by freshman D...really bad and again we cant score unless we have a 2 man advantage.
UVM Cat in Texas
Now UVM Cat in Georgia
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
This team has problems that aren't going to be solved by the arrival of Girgensons or the return of McCarthy. They just don't play solid, fundamental hockey, which is both surprising and disappointing. This is now their 3rd straight season of underachieving, with this one being the worst by far. I don't know how to fix it, but maybe it is time to starting thinking it's going to take someone other than Sneddon to dig us out of this hole. Sometimes change is good just for the sake of change. Look what happened with our friends at UML. Anyone know when Sneddon's contract runs out?
This team has problems that aren't going to be solved by the arrival of Girgensons or the return of McCarthy. They just don't play solid, fundamental hockey, which is both surprising and disappointing. This is now their 3rd straight season of underachieving, with this one being the worst by far. I don't know how to fix it, but maybe it is time to starting thinking it's going to take someone other than Sneddon to dig us out of this hole. Sometimes change is good just for the sake of change. Look what happened with our friends at UML. Anyone know when Sneddon's contract runs out?
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
His contract runs out in 2014. The three years of underachieving come in complete concert with the departure of Mitchell. Also, last years senior class was recruited prior to micheletto!! Sneddon has proven he knows what to do on the bench..its his other choices that concern me.
His contract runs out in 2014. The three years of underachieving come in complete concert with the departure of Mitchell. Also, last years senior class was recruited prior to micheletto!! Sneddon has proven he knows what to do on the bench..its his other choices that concern me.
Martin St. Louis Fan
Section 21 at the GUT !
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
I always fall back on a saying that " Anyone who rests their careers on the back of 18 year old kids has to be crazy!"
A bit drastic, but true. We often times forget the players are college kids, and all the things that go along with such.
Calling for Kevin's head is pretty weak IMO. He did bring a team to the FF, and the NCAA tourney. That alone buys him enough time to right the ship!
I always fall back on a saying that " Anyone who rests their careers on the back of 18 year old kids has to be crazy!"
A bit drastic, but true. We often times forget the players are college kids, and all the things that go along with such.
Calling for Kevin's head is pretty weak IMO. He did bring a team to the FF, and the NCAA tourney. That alone buys him enough time to right the ship!
UVM Cat in Texas
Now UVM Cat in Georgia
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
Sneddon seems like a really good guy and a good coach and I appreciate what he did in getting them to the FF. I also agree that his past success buys him some time to straighten things out. How much time is the question. Would you say he's got until the end of his contract in 2014? I don't know, maybe I'm falling into a "What have you done for me lately?" mentality, but I can't take much more of this ineptitude.I always fall back on a saying that " Anyone who rests their careers on the back of 18 year old kids has to be crazy!"
A bit drastic, but true. We often times forget the players are college kids, and all the things that go along with such.
Calling for Kevin's head is pretty weak IMO. He did bring a team to the FF, and the NCAA tourney. That alone buys him enough time to right the ship!
Martin St. Louis Fan
Section 21 at the GUT !
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
I think he gets at least to 2014. I have lot's of confidence in Kevin. I think he is great coach. He may be putting to much responsibility on his assistants, while he try's to teach, lead, inspire the kids. I think John Micheletto is a quality guy and AC. Don't know anything about Joe Gaspirini. He seems very quiet. If you are recruiting, you want a very enthusiastic person who can sell what Vermont has to offer. I think you need someone like Aaron Miller in that role. ( one can dream I guess) He could be a powerful presence in a recruits living room.
I think he gets at least to 2014. I have lot's of confidence in Kevin. I think he is great coach. He may be putting to much responsibility on his assistants, while he try's to teach, lead, inspire the kids. I think John Micheletto is a quality guy and AC. Don't know anything about Joe Gaspirini. He seems very quiet. If you are recruiting, you want a very enthusiastic person who can sell what Vermont has to offer. I think you need someone like Aaron Miller in that role. ( one can dream I guess) He could be a powerful presence in a recruits living room.
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
With the move to HE, recovery from the hazing scandal, and based on the school size and what it has to offer I expect this program to be on par with UNH, BU, and Maine. Always in the top 20 with a few exceptions and making the NCAA more than once every 10 years (more like almost every year). That is not happening. You can't also say he is a great coach but his assistants may be lacking. Having good assistants is part of being a good coach!!! One of the years we made the NCAA, we backed in with a good OOC record but an abysmal HE record. I am in the what have you really done camp.
He seems like a great guy, I like what he says in the post game interviews but it is not showing up on the ice. Nine years is a long time to right the ship and put a consistent product out.
I always fall back on a saying that " Anyone who rests their careers on the back of 18 year old kids has to be crazy!"
A bit drastic, but true. We often times forget the players are college kids, and all the things that go along with such.
Calling for Kevin's head is pretty weak IMO. He did bring a team to the FF, and the NCAA tourney. That alone buys him enough time to right the ship!
With the move to HE, recovery from the hazing scandal, and based on the school size and what it has to offer I expect this program to be on par with UNH, BU, and Maine. Always in the top 20 with a few exceptions and making the NCAA more than once every 10 years (more like almost every year). That is not happening. You can't also say he is a great coach but his assistants may be lacking. Having good assistants is part of being a good coach!!! One of the years we made the NCAA, we backed in with a good OOC record but an abysmal HE record. I am in the what have you really done camp.
He seems like a great guy, I like what he says in the post game interviews but it is not showing up on the ice. Nine years is a long time to right the ship and put a consistent product out.
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/men/statistics/1112/oateam.php
Last in every category besides PP and thats only because we have 4 PP goals on 5-3. Two defenseman at the bottom of the conference in +- in Mckenzie and Paliotta, only one returning forward with more than 3 goals...I think a change is needed somewhere, I hope you can agree to that. I happen to like Kevin Sneddon from what I can tell he is a quality guy and yes he did have success a few years back but the true test of a great coach is to turn around a slide. What I see is a bunch of players playing worse than the beginning of the season right now...and alot of freshman that have lost or are losing their confidence..that is direct reflection of the coaching staff.
http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/men/statistics/1112/oateam.php
Last in every category besides PP and thats only because we have 4 PP goals on 5-3. Two defenseman at the bottom of the conference in +- in Mckenzie and Paliotta, only one returning forward with more than 3 goals...I think a change is needed somewhere, I hope you can agree to that. I happen to like Kevin Sneddon from what I can tell he is a quality guy and yes he did have success a few years back but the true test of a great coach is to turn around a slide. What I see is a bunch of players playing worse than the beginning of the season right now...and alot of freshman that have lost or are losing their confidence..that is direct reflection of the coaching staff.
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
No offense but... based on the snippet I just quoted above you really should be seeking some professional help.
UVM needs a new facility first and foremost.
With the move to HE, recovery from the hazing scandal, and based on the school size and what it has to offer I expect this program to be on par with UNH, BU, and Maine. Always in the top 20 with a few exceptions and making the NCAA more than once every 10 years (more like almost every year).
No offense but... based on the snippet I just quoted above you really should be seeking some professional help.
UVM needs a new facility first and foremost.
UVM Cat in Texas
Now UVM Cat in Georgia
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
Amen to that. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening any time soon.UVM needs a new facility first and foremost.
UVM Cat in Texas
Now UVM Cat in Georgia
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
BTW, what's your take on Sneddon?No offense but... based on the snippet I just quoted above you really should be seeking some professional help.
UVM needs a new facility first and foremost.
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Re: 2011-12 Vermont Season Thread (Vezina & Conn Smyth trophy edition)
I still have to think the jury is out on him.
Had a nice team in 2009 but a FF team based on wins over Yale and Air Force? Meh. In HE finals the year before was nice and another trip to the Garden 2 years later with another shutout loss to BC (just some more detailed info for my friend jcarter). I'd say average performance.
He's seen an uptic in recruiting, especially after the FF trip. Some definitely notable players nationally. So I'd have to give him a little longer to get those guys in and develop them. If he can't, he either has problems identifying talent or developing them. Either way that would be bad.
In game coaching. No real bad moments like a Blasi or a Umile but nothing exciting either. System is (or was) meh... Seems like it has opened up a bit lately, is that true?
Program management. Here's the big one. Seems to be kicking a guy off the team every year. What is up with this? Is he bringing in bad kids (he has to take responsibility for that). Is he not able to motivate them (also his problem)? Do the players have fun playing there?
I'd have to give him 2-3 more years and see where he is at. He should be lobbying heavily for a new facility. He was a hot commodity in 2009 but that is wearing off quickly.
Realistic expectations from an outsider's view? Trip to Garden 50% of the time. Home ice 60% of the time. Playoffs 100% of the time. NCAAs 50% of the time. FF 10% of the time.
Notre Dame coming in isn't going to make it any easier for a program like UVM either.
BTW, what's your take on Sneddon?
I still have to think the jury is out on him.
Had a nice team in 2009 but a FF team based on wins over Yale and Air Force? Meh. In HE finals the year before was nice and another trip to the Garden 2 years later with another shutout loss to BC (just some more detailed info for my friend jcarter). I'd say average performance.
He's seen an uptic in recruiting, especially after the FF trip. Some definitely notable players nationally. So I'd have to give him a little longer to get those guys in and develop them. If he can't, he either has problems identifying talent or developing them. Either way that would be bad.
In game coaching. No real bad moments like a Blasi or a Umile but nothing exciting either. System is (or was) meh... Seems like it has opened up a bit lately, is that true?
Program management. Here's the big one. Seems to be kicking a guy off the team every year. What is up with this? Is he bringing in bad kids (he has to take responsibility for that). Is he not able to motivate them (also his problem)? Do the players have fun playing there?
I'd have to give him 2-3 more years and see where he is at. He should be lobbying heavily for a new facility. He was a hot commodity in 2009 but that is wearing off quickly.
Realistic expectations from an outsider's view? Trip to Garden 50% of the time. Home ice 60% of the time. Playoffs 100% of the time. NCAAs 50% of the time. FF 10% of the time.
Notre Dame coming in isn't going to make it any easier for a program like UVM either.