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2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

Did I say that you should replace Nathan with just anybody? I'm saying teams like the Twins should get a reliable closer and take the savings and improve other parts of their team.

The guys I mentioned are as good as Nathan, if not better. With the cost savings you could find another starter, another solid BP arm, whatever.

11 million on a closer when your total payroll is under 70 is crazy.

It is only going to get worse...if they sign Mauer it will be about 20 million out of 80-90 for one player. That is 25% of the salary for one (great) player which is ridiculous!

TBA you ignore the fact that if the Twins went cheaper to get a closer they wouldnt spend the savings on anything. They would pocket most of it and try and get Jesse Orosco to come out of retirement and pitch.
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

Not really. If that were the case, they wouldn't have let him get to free agency. Their original plan was to try to find a way to trade for Mark DeRosa, and when that fell through, they decided to "make a splash" in the free agency market like you're always whining for them to do and guess who the best available middle infielder was?

I guess the Twins really showed the Phillies by "making a splash" and outbidding them.

Who the hell asked them to pay 4 million bucks for Punto? That isnt what any of us asked for and if he was the best out there then say goodbye and let it go. They didn't sign him to appease the fans, they signed him as a smoke screen and cause Gardy likes him. Oh and because they have no one within the system who can play second base since Casilla is worse than GoGo.
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

Who the hell asked them to pay 4 million bucks for Punto? That isnt what any of us asked for and if he was the best out there then say goodbye and let it go. They didn't sign him to appease the fans, they signed him as a smoke screen and cause Gardy likes him. Oh and because they have no one within the system who can play second base since Casilla is worse than GoGo.

Well, and Punto knows how to have a professional major league at bat. Unlike Young who swings at the first pitch EVERY SINGLE TIME.
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

Well, and Punto knows how to have a professional major league at bat. Unlike Young who swings at the first pitch EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Hey I got no issues with Nicky beyond his salary which isnt his fault. In fact it is fun to watch how upset the masses get about him...especially when he slides into first :D He is a solid player who should never be a full-time starter but once again it isnt his fault that he is.

Delmon Young could be very very good but he needs to learn how to bat. He reminds me of Torii Hunter early in his career where he never met a pitch he didn't like. If he gained any sort of plate discipline he would bat .300 and hit for decent power. Problem is I doubt he ever will. (of course I said the same thing about Hunter and Kubel and was wrong both times)
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

I don't think Nathan is being labeled as damaged right now, going into the postseason he was generally considered (by ESPN types) to be one of the best closers in baseball... who knows what GMs think though.
That's the problem -- GMs listen to their scouts, not ESPN. Everybody who watched Joe saw that he struggled with command and seemed afraid to come after guys. He has to be attractive to a team at his current salary, and I doubt that he is. If he returns to pitching like he did in the first half of the season, no problem. If not, huge problem.

Did I say that you should replace Nathan with just anybody? I'm saying teams like the Twins should get a reliable closer and take the savings and improve other parts of their team.
...
The guys I mentioned are as good as Nathan, if not better.
Not that familiar with some of them -- I don't watch much NL ball. A definite pass on Aardsma, though. He had enough trouble throwing strikes when he was a set-up guy for ChiSox. Your suggested approach is basically how they got Nathan in the first place. You may be right (the Angels must agree in that they didn't stay with KRod), but I don't know that the Twins can now get out from under his contract. If word gets out that they are shopping him but can't find a taker, then things could get ugly.

In fact it is fun to watch how upset the masses get about him...especially when he slides into first :D He is a solid player who should never be a full-time starter but once again it isnt his fault that he is.
That's my problem with him -- he's held up as the poster child for playing baseball the Twins way, but he does dumb things all the time. This year he finally worked on hitting the ball on the ground after how many years, at bats, and cans of corn? Then there was 2007 when he couldn't hit his weight, and it got so bad that he couldn't even bunt for a sacrifice. I'm sorry, but if you are a veteran middle infielder with Nick's batting abilities or lack thereof, it is inexcusable if bunting is not in your arsenal.

Delmon Young could be very very good but he needs to learn how to bat. He reminds me of Torii Hunter early in his career where he never met a pitch he didn't like. If he gained any sort of plate discipline he would bat .300 and hit for decent power. Problem is I doubt he ever will. (of course I said the same thing about Hunter and Kubel and was wrong both times)
During his years of flailing, Torii Hunter was still a very good CFer and an above average baserunner. Delmon's problem seems worse than Torii's -- at least Hunter had a decent swing if he swung at something hittable. Young's swing looks like he got it out of a Cracker Jack box. Kubel actually has a very nice swing and decent discipline at the plate. He just was set back a couple of years by a very bad knee injury.
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

We are stuck with Nathan as the closer they are paying him too much at this point and they havent even begun to groom anyone to be the next closer.

It seems everyone assumes little to nothing will be done this offseason. Let me ask you, is that going to upset you more than usual because of Target Field? I am not asking because I am trying to rip the team I am asking because the thought of that angers me a lot and I want to see what others think.

I will be, not just this offseason but offseasons to come as well. The whole reason they said they needed it was to be able to compete. We as tax payers did our part, now the Twins need to do their part, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

Without Nathan they don't even make the playoffs this year. Not even close.
You could say that about virtually everyone on the team.

Closers tend to be over-rated. An average pitcher can save probably 75-80% of save situations. A good closer can save probably 85-95% of those situations. Is that difference really worth giving a flyer on a guy for 1 mill vs. paying someone 11 mill a year?
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

I'm not sure why a guy with more saves than Rivera since he became a full-time closer is considered overrated. Does he need to do better in the postseason? yes. But he gets the job done otherwise.
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

I'm not sure why a guy with more saves than Rivera since he became a full-time closer is considered overrated. Does he need to do better in the postseason? yes. But he gets the job done otherwise.

He could save 100 games in the regular season, but if he performs like he did this year in the playoffs, than I'm sorry, but he's over-rated. All it took was one look at him on the mound and you could tell his brain was going about a million miles per hour as he overthought everything and then just completely lost it once he put a runner on base. I don't care how lights-out you are throughout the season. Pull some crap like that when it really counts, and you can take a hike for all I'm concerned.

Delmon Young could be very very good but he needs to learn how to bat. He reminds me of Torii Hunter early in his career where he never met a pitch he didn't like. If he gained any sort of plate discipline he would bat .300 and hit for decent power. Problem is I doubt he ever will. (of course I said the same thing about Hunter and Kubel and was wrong both times)

Not to mention the fact that Young has a reputation for being almost completely uncoachable, which I think has been quite evident in his two years here (if it wasn't already obvious with how eager the Rays were to part ways with him). He's the only guy in the league who makes me hold my breath on a routine fly ball hit his direction. He looks completely aloof, all the time. Get rid of him now while he still has some value.
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

Closers tend to be over-rated. An average pitcher can save probably 75-80% of save situations. A good closer can save probably 85-95% of those situations. Is that difference really worth giving a flyer on a guy for 1 mill vs. paying someone 11 mill a year?

I saw something on the odds of baseball once. A team has a 92% chance of winning the game if they are up by two runs in the 9th. Regardless of who is the closer. It goes up to 97% with 3 runs, and anything more is 99+%. You're telling me you need a guy to come in and save the game? It's more drama based than anything.

And I guarantee Joe Mauer will not be a Twin after 2010. Guarantee. I'm willing to wager money on this. Any takers?
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

And I guarantee Joe Mauer will not be a Twin after 2010. Guarantee. I'm willing to wager money on this. Any takers?

I'll wager the cost of rebuilding Target Field after I burn it down when they don't re-sign Baby Jesus.
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

And I guarantee Joe Mauer will not be a Twin after 2010. Guarantee. I'm willing to wager money on this. Any takers?

You're late to the party - I already have a $100 bet with BigPieps that he'll be a Yankee before the end of his career.
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

He could save 100 games in the regular season, but if he performs like he did this year in the playoffs, than I'm sorry, but he's over-rated. All it took was one look at him on the mound and you could tell his brain was going about a million miles per hour as he overthought everything and then just completely lost it once he put a runner on base. I don't care how lights-out you are throughout the season. Pull some crap like that when it really counts, and you can take a hike for all I'm concerned.

It wasnt just this postseason, look at all his career postseason numbers they are atrocious.

Not to mention the fact that Young has a reputation for being almost completely uncoachable, which I think has been quite evident in his two years here (if it wasn't already obvious with how eager the Rays were to part ways with him). He's the only guy in the league who makes me hold my breath on a routine fly ball hit his direction. He looks completely aloof, all the time. Get rid of him now while he still has some value.

If you get rid of Delmon that means you made the Garza and Bartlett trade for Brendan Harris...that is unacceptable. Young is what 23 you have to give him more time. You put too much into that move and in reality you have no else to play in the outfield. You don't play GoGo for Young because even during his best years his numbers wont compare to Young's. Sometimes players figure it out...using Hunter again remember TK hated him and said he was uncoachable too you just never know when a player is going to "get it".
 
Re: 2009 MN Twins Part 4: I Was Told There Would Be No Math

If you get rid of Delmon that means you made the Garza and Bartlett trade for Brendan Harris...that is unacceptable. Young is what 23 you have to give him more time. You put too much into that move and in reality you have no else to play in the outfield. You don't play GoGo for Young because even during his best years his numbers wont compare to Young's. Sometimes players figure it out...using Hunter again remember TK hated him and said he was uncoachable too you just never know when a player is going to "get it".

I don't get it. We should have patience with Young because he's 23 and needs more time, but Gomez, also 23 I might add, will never reach Young's supposed improved production 2, 3, 4 years down the line? How do you figure?

Regarding the trade with Tampa, have you ever heard of the concept of sunk costs? Where companies (or people) eventually go broke because they implemented an expensive but horrible idea and refused to let it go because they had "too much" invested in it already.

Comparing Young to Hunter is only slightly valid. Offensively, their numbers through the same point in their careers are comparable, but defensively and on the clubhouse level, there's no comparison. Hunter was a favorite right away, and was great in the field from the get-go. Young makes an abortion out of anything hit his way, and in the off chance that he does make a nice catch, it won't matter because he'll likely end up throwing to the wrong base or missing the cutoff man allowing a run to score or runners to advance. He's had 4 years in the majors, that nonsense should have been eliminated by now. He also doesn't seem to be a great clubhouse guy either, just based on what I've seen on TV and several comments made by Gardy through the past two years.
 
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