12/10 USCHO Poll

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

The last time Platty was any good "Jacques Lemaire" was the coach !

Right..... But I guess its better to be good at some point then to never be good at all like some teams....

 

[admiral0417]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

The last time Platty was any good "Jacques Lemaire" was the coach !

Unless , of course, you want to count 3 National Championships, a dozen or so Final Fours and numerous NCAA appearances. Oh...and about 17 SUNYAC titles and lord knows how many 20+ seasons always against the best OOC teams they can find.

P.S. I played for Jacques, he was never the head coach, Herb Hammond was.

 

[Ozz]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Unless , of course, you want to count 3 National Championships, a dozen or so Final Fours and numerous NCAA appearances. Oh...and about 17 SUNYAC titles and lord knows how many 20+ seasons always against the best OOC teams they can find.

P.S. I played for Jacques, he was never the head coach, Herb Hammond was.

3?

JK JK...Don't want to spark that debate again

 

[sshablak]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Wasn't Lemaire the head coach ?? Do you remember a frosh goalie named Jim Bielby??

 

[OSU2010]

Unless , of course, you want to count 3 National Championships, a dozen or so Final Fours and numerous NCAA appearances. Oh...and about 17 SUNYAC titles and lord knows how many 20+ seasons always against the best OOC teams they can find.

P.S. I played for Jacques, he was never the head coach, Herb Hammond was.

Don't you mean 2 championships and a #

 

[joecct]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Unless , of course, you want to count 3 National Championships, a dozen or so Final Fours and numerous NCAA appearances. Oh...and about 17 SUNYAC titles and lord knows how many 20+ seasons always against the best OOC teams they can find.

P.S. I played for Jacques, he was never the head coach, Herb Hammond was.

Were you on the team that beat Clarkson?

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Wasn't Lemaire the head coach ?? Do you remember a frosh goalie named Jim Bielby??

He was never the head coach.

Somewhere, I have a tape of an interview I did with him when the team came to Potsdam.

 

[admiral0417]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Let me see....YES, we count 3 NCAA titles because we won all of them on the ice where it counts. The # will be changed someday soon I have a feeling. Yes, I remember vaguely a goalie named Bielby. Wasn't he from Rome, NY ?? I think Herb brought him in to back up Rick Strack, which was gonna mean about 45 minutes all year !!

Yes, I played on the team that beat Clarkson 3-2 AT Clarkson !! It was our first game under Herb Hammond and although I would like to say we dominated play, it was quite the contrary. I think we caught them way off guard. Clarkson was absolutely loaded. In subsequent games with them, and other D1 teams, we always got their "A" game. But , during that year of '80-81, we swept through Clarkson, UVM, Colgate, RPI and St Lawrence without losing.

 

[llama]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Just a little side not on the "respect"....

You get respect from winning when it matters....not just beating a team ...you have to remember this is a human poll not a computer poll (thank god no ofense prof). People will always give teams like Norwich SNC Plattsburgh Oswego Middlebury because of what they've done and at the same time teams like Utica who have year after year not shown anything. You get the benifit of a doubt when you lose or tie against inferior opponents. When does a loss become a slip up and when does it become "this team just isn't as good anymore". On the flip side when does a win become an "upset" and when does it become just another win. When Plattsburgh plays teams like Norwich, Middlebury, Oswego its not really an upset...its just another win. When teams like Hobart and Utica beat these teams, its still considered an upset because they have not shown the ability to consistsntly play at the level of the top tier teams. Utica will not only need to either beat Oswego again and again and again but MAKE the NCAAs and DO something. Kind of like the Atlanta Falcons on thr NCAA....good teams....except Atlanta actually makes the playoffs

I don't agree that if/when Hobart beats an elite team it is automatically "still considered an upset". Hobart has made the NCAA tournament 4 times in the past 10 years....with two Final Four appearances. In this time period, they have beaten Norwich (at Norwich) in a tournament game....lost a heartbreaker in OT to St. Norbert in a final four game and have played Oswego and Middlebury pretty even in the regular season games they've played in recent history. Unfortunately, they don't get to play Platty very often anymore. I'm not saying Hobart belongs in the same conversation as the elite programs you mention above. But I do believe Hobart has earned a bit more respect than you are willing to give them...

 

[Birdwatcher]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Don't you mean 2 championships and a #

The Oswego players from that game will tell you Plattsburgh did win it on the ice, no matter what the NCAA has done.

 

[sshablak]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Yes...He is from Rome NY. Tx

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Let me see....YES, we count 3 NCAA titles because we won all of them on the ice where it counts.

Just like Ben Johnson "truly" won the 100 meters, right...?

The # will be changed someday soon I have a feeling.

And just how in the world will that ever happen?

Yes, I remember vaguely a goalie named Bielby. Wasn't he from Rome, NY ?? I think Herb brought him in to back up Rick Strack, which was gonna mean about 45 minutes all year !!

Strack was a monster. Drafted by the Rangers I believe, right?

Yes, I played on the team that beat Clarkson 3-2 AT Clarkson !! It was our first game under Herb Hammond and although I would like to say we dominated play, it was quite the contrary. I think we caught them way off guard. Clarkson was absolutely loaded. In subsequent games with them, and other D1 teams, we always got their "A" game. But , during that year of '80-81, we swept through Clarkson, UVM, Colgate, RPI and St Lawrence without losing.

I remember that. Then you came into Potsdam, I believe 10-0 at the time, and Potsdam waxed you. One of my most glorious college memories.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Just like Ben Johnson "truly" won the 100 meters, right...?



And just how in the world will that ever happen?



Strack was a monster. Drafted by the Rangers I believe, right?

Lets not start again. We all know where you stand on it and we al know where the rest of us stand. I've said it before, if it happened today there would be no * next to it. We let teams hand out scholarships/grants whatever to 98% athletes and they get told "don't do it again". If people don't think their are "perks" in attending some schools these days still then they need to get their head out of the sandbox.

It was not used in a recruiting tool saying "hey come to Plattsburgh and you can live with a Booster member for free, use their car, and if you need a loan its okay (which were paid back) oh and we are having a holiday dinner and you're invited since its holiday break". What people forget is Plattsburgh and its hockey team have been one for years. Admirial can atest to this too im sure. The community felt and some still do apart of the team. Friendships are made and continue post hockey. Some people want to make it seem like ALL players were given this hotel of sorts where they had unlimited beer, women, were all given brand new cars, ate steak and lobster every night served and paid for by boosters, and were all given $1,000 dollars in loans and never had to pay it back or work for anything. And all of this was told to incoming recruits, that's why they were so good. That's why they chose Plattsburgh. So that's why they won the Championship hense vacated.....righhhttt...

 

[EastCoastBias]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

The polls are fodder for conversation between the non-connected to the team hangers-on types (fans, relatives, parents, etc). Everyone, well most I hope, realize that the polls are meaningless until the near end of the season. A lot can happen between now and late February and usually the wheat sorts itself out from the chaff. However, if the polls were based on student athlete academic credentials, the NESCAC teams would be ranked 1-10 nation-wide all year every year regardless of wins and losses record. But, I digress............

 

[admiral0417]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Yes, Potsdam beat us 8-5 back then after we ran the table against D1. I don't know about "waxed". They had brought in some very good players that gave them a chance against us. Prior to that, it was a football score (14-3, 17-6, etc) when we played them. I had a real bad feeling prior to that game that something was not right. But it helped us in the long run as we went 27-4-2 and secured Plattsburgh's first trip to the NCAA's (only 4 teams invited back then).

Strack was awesome for us all year and the Caps, Rangers and Flames were hot on his trail. He signed with New York a day after we lost to Lowell in the NCAA Final 5-4. In one of the greatest games in D2 history, we had beaten Oswego at Romney 7-6 for the right to go. They were 26-2 or something like that. I know we were down by 2 going in to the 3rd and it looked bleak, especially 'cause we were shorthanded for 5 minutes. But a shorty changed the "Mo" and we scored 3 unanswered to win.

You could've flipped a coin between us, Oswego and Lowell to determine the best team. I think all 3 of those teams are in the Top 10of all time in D2/D3. I also thought RIT '86, Middlebury mid-90's would also be in there.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Lets not start again. We all know where you stand on it and we al know where the rest of us stand. I've said it before, if it happened today there would be no * next to it. We let teams hand out scholarships/grants whatever to 98% athletes and they get told "don't do it again". If people don't think their are "perks" in attending some schools these days still then they need to get their head out of the sandbox.

Oh, come one, you're no fun...

Mostly agree except for the asterisk part if it happened today. Just look at what happened to USC.

Also, you have to understand the NCAA distinction between intended and non-intended. They say the foreign aid transgressions of recent years was non-intended. They said the Plattsburgh situation was intended. The NCAA has always had a history of coming down hard on schools which in their viewpoint intentially break the rules (loss of institional control, as they call it). Always. SMU football is the extreme example. The NCAA has shown consistency in that regard, whether you agree if the made the right call concerning intended vs. non-intended.

It was not used in a recruiting tool saying "hey come to Plattsburgh and you can live with a Booster member for free, use their car, and if you need a loan its okay (which were paid back) oh and we are having a holiday dinner and you're invited since its holiday break". What people forget is Plattsburgh and its hockey team have been one for years. Admirial can atest to this too im sure. The community felt and some still do apart of the team. Friendships are made and continue post hockey. Some people want to make it seem like ALL players were given this hotel of sorts where they had unlimited beer, women, were all given brand new cars, ate steak and lobster every night served and paid for by boosters, and were all given $1,000 dollars in loans and never had to pay it back or work for anything. And all of this was told to incoming recruits, that's why they were so good. That's why they chose Plattsburgh. So that's why they won the Championship hense vacated.....righhhttt...

I agree this is a distinguishing factor. If it was used as a recruiting tool, then it could be argued that team could never have been put together the way it was, and ergo, they would not have won the title.

I find it hard to believe some recruits didn't get wind of their practices at some point while looking at schools, and one has to wonder whether it kept some players from leavinig school early. Of course, we'll never know.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

The polls are fodder for conversation between the non-connected to the team hangers-on types (fans, relatives, parents, etc). Everyone, well most I hope, realize that the polls are meaningless until the near end of the season. A lot can happen between now and late February and usually the wheat sorts itself out from the chaff. However, if the polls were based on student athlete academic credentials, the NESCAC teams would be ranked 1-10 nation-wide all year every year regardless of wins and losses record. But, I digress............

The polls are just as meaningless at the end of the season, also.

Since you're digressing, only NESCAC schools that can spell can be in the top 10....

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

Yes, Potsdam beat us 8-5 back then after we ran the table against D1. I don't know about "waxed".

Hey, allow me to relive the memory the way I want to. Party-pooper...

However, if I do remember correctly, Potsdam really took the momentum in the third period, which surprised us all since we fully expected Plattsburgh to take control of the game and "set things right."

They had brought in some very good players that gave them a chance against us.

Yes, that was the year Potsdam started bringing in some very good players. The Marcoux brothers showed up (Dennis and Pierre that year, Yves joined them the next year). Randy Frederick was on that team. The goalie Randy Brown was in his third year as was the captain John Rowe.

Prior to that, it was a football score (14-3, 17-6, etc) when we played them.

The first game I did on the radio, Plattsburgh won 19-2. The goals were coming so fast, I couldn't even describe them quick enough.

You could've flipped a coin between us, Oswego and Lowell to determine the best team. I think all 3 of those teams are in the Top 10of all time in D2/D3.

Yes, those were some powerful teams.

 

[EastCoastBias]

Re: 12/10 USCHO Poll

The polls are just as meaningless at the end of the season, also.

Since you're digressing, only NESCAC schools that can spell can be in the top 10....

touché

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Oh, come one, you're no fun...

Mostly agree except for the asterisk part if it happened today. Just look at what happened to USC.

Also, you have to understand the NCAA distinction between intended and non-intended. They say the foreign aid transgressions of recent years was non-intended. They said the Plattsburgh situation was intended. The NCAA has always had a history of coming down hard on schools which in their viewpoint intentially break the rules (loss of institional control, as they call it). Always. SMU football is the extreme example. The NCAA has shown consistency in that regard, whether you agree if the made the right call concerning intended vs. non-intended

USC: Airline tickets, loans, hotel rooms, 96 Chevy Impala ($19,000), free rent in Spring Valley 2hours+ south of USC, and over $30,000 added mostly into banks accounts.....that was just football

Basketball: OJ Mayo violations

Tennis: $7,000 school credit card given to a player to make long distance phone calls.

Far cry from a few meals....it was also the BCS who took their Championship away, not the NCAA. If you go back the AP Poll still recognizes USC as National Champions.

As I said before, if "intended" when 98% of your "grants" are going to athletes isn't obvious I dont know what is. Majority of the time the schools were all warned and told to pay attention and they still did it.

The issue with the aide issue is that its suppose to be confidential. And
while the exact numbers may be, incoming potential athletes (and their parents) know where the $$$ is and who has the biggest grants. Lack of institutional control. I guess its not the institutions job to control who gets what scholarship ect ect and how many are athletes. Blame it on the coach, blame it on the FA office, either way there was lack of control yet "just don't do it again".

My point is what happened at USC is nothing like that at Plattsburgh yet had the same penalties. With all of what happened at USC they should have been banned a lot longer then two years (which is what Plattsburgh got). I do not, nor never will, see how those two are even close to equal.