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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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ScoobyDoo said:
From what I see right now we are doing way more placating then fighting. See Senate Jan 6 report, filibuster, and Voting Laws debate for context.
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Scoob, I'm not asking what we're doing. I'm asking WHAT DO WE DO? Right now. What do you and I do, what do Nancy and Chuck do, what do Joe and Kamala do, what does Merrick do? What do we do as we see democracy circling the drain and we have at most 500 days until the brown shirts stuff the ballot boxes, take Congress, and dismantle American democracy if not forever then until we actually fight a civil war?
 
Kepler said:
Scoob, I'm not asking what we're doing. I'm asking WHAT DO WE DO? Right now. What do you and I do, what do nancy and Chuck do, what do Joe and Kamala do, what does Merrick do? *** do we do as we see democracy circling the drain?
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This is a start.

https://www.strikepac.com/


Unfortunately we have the inability to hold our caucus in line like Turtle Boy can. Sad, really.

I agree with Elizabeth Warren here:

We cannot throw our democracy off a cliff in order to preserve a Senate rule that isn't even a part of the Constitution.
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But her colleagues like Joe don't fucking card.
 
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If the Democratic senators are truly going against a wildly popular voting act, then the Dems need to cut them out. It is better to have the public shown that the senators from WV and AZ can not be called Democrats because they aren't following the core reason the Dems were elected. That gives you a chance in 2022 to get a majority.
 
Bronco said:
If the Democratic senators are truly going against a wildly popular voting act, then the Dems need to cut them out. It is better to have the public shown that the senators from WV and AZ can not be called Democrats because they aren't following the core reason the Dems were elected. That gives you a chance in 2022 to get a majority.
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OK, but what does "cut them out" mean? Certainly not out of the caucus: right now we need them for the majority that drives committee chairs and the agenda.

We need our blue dogs --any blue > any red -- but we also need Democratic majorities that don't depend upon them in tight corners like ending the filibuster. I don't understand Sinema, maybe she has just been flat out bribed, but I do understand Manchin. We are amazingly lucky to have a blue Senator from one of the worst red states, and we should not fuck with that.

Here is the Senate:

FT_21.01.27_SplitSenate_2.png



Let's remove names and just think about debits and credits from what you would expect from the state:

WV +1
MT +1
PA -1
ME -1
WI -1

We're ahead of the game right now. If the Senate split according to the states' identities we'd be in an permanent minority because the Senate is fucking stupid (if sorry if this hurts flyovers' feelings, but the worst insult to American democracy isn't Jim Crow II, it's the nonproportional representation of the Senate. That is what needs to end. The fact that your mom spawned you in a barn rather than a city storm drain does not entitle you, and more importantly your racist neighbors, to unequal power. Take one for the team and GET OVER IT.

OK, so here are targets and worries. Obviously, first the converse of the above. But then:

Worries (purple states with 2 Dems right now):

GA
AZ
NV
MI

Targets (purple states with 2 GOP right now):

NC
​​​​​​​FL
IA (Maybe? Or is this lost?)
 
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Try standing for something. Say *this* is what we stand for. If people don't vote for it, then we are fucked. I expect people will vote for it. Otherwise we are just giving empty promises again, and will be destroyed in 2022. Right now there is zero penalty to do what Manchin is doing. So fuck it. Stand for voting rights. Stand for a better tax code. Stand for the ideals we presumably say we are for. Actually believe in something.

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I understand it is amazing to have a senator from WV. That will not happen again in my lifetime. Here's the problem though. The Democrats keep saying they are going to deliver on their promises, but isn't it funny that the Dems never deliver even with all three branches of government? Manchin is bad for the brand. The GOP learned this a long time ago. Follow the party line or GTFO. Is it better to have all the chairs and accomplish nothing else for 1.5 years? Or is it better to tell the electorate that *this* is what we stand for, and the senator from WV didn't follow his promise to the party. Again. Stand for something.
 
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rufus said:
Like they're gonna do anything different.

The Nazis are gonna do whatever it is the Nazis are gonna do, whether the Democrats placate them, coddle them, or otherwise try to bribe them for their support.

So just don't. Do what needs to be done.
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To be fair to Rand, that isn't Nazi, it's Plute. I long for the days (70s through 00s) when the GOP was the party of rich people actively increasing the suffering of the poor. That was when they had a moral compass.
 
Bronco said:
Try standing for something. Say *this* is what we stand for. If people don't vote for it, then we are fucked. I expect people will vote for it. Otherwise we are just giving empty promises again, and will be destroyed in 2022.
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Ok, so how do you campaign without promising things?

Right now there is zero penalty to do what Manchin is doing. So fuck it. Stand for voting rights. Stand for a better tax code. Stand for the ideals we presumably say we are for. Actually believe in something.
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We had an election in 2020 on that. We lost seats in the House and barely tied the Senate and were only like 100k votes away from losing the White House.

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I understand it is amazing to have a senator from WV. That will not happen again in my lifetime. Here's the problem though. The Democrats keep saying they are going to deliver on their promises, but isn't it funny that the Dems never deliver even with all three branches of government? Manchin is bad for the brand. The GOP learned this a long time ago. Follow the party line or GTFO. Is it better to have all the chairs and accomplish nothing else for 1.5 years? Or is it better to tell the electorate that *this* is what we stand for, and the senator from WV didn't follow his promise to the party. Again. Stand for something.
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"I'd rather have a Senate Minority Leader McConnell than Senate Majority Leader McConnell." -uno (I think)

What you're proposing, Bronco, is trading a guy who will fuck you 50% of the time for someone who will fuck you 100% of the time. And you don't get to set the agenda. A Democrat not named Joe Manchin will not win WV.
 
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dxmnkd316 said:
Ok, so how do you campaign without promising things?



We had an election in 2020 on that. We lost seats in the House and barely tied the Senate and were only like 100k votes away from losing the White House.



"I'd rather have a Senate Minority Leader McConnell than Senate Majority Leader McConnell." -uno (I think)

What you're proposing, Bronco, is trading a guy who will fuck you 50% of the time for someone who will fuck you 100% of the time. And you don't get to set the agenda. A Democrat not named Joe Manchin will not win WV.
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Yes, that is precisely what I am offering. Then you can blame Manchin. Then you can say he wasn't a true Democrat and we need to elect *this* person in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Texas. Those people believe in voting rights, fair tax codes, etc. Stand for something. Make it unequivocally clear that Manchin isn't what the Democrats stand for because he is some corporate shill exacerbating the prices of insulin. Because he doesn't believe that all Americans deserve the same access to vote. Dredge him and make him an example. Stop begging for scraps from people like him that only stay in the Democratic party because they hold all the power.

I understand this is a bold take, but the party will be better for it.
 
Bronco said:
Do you think the Democrats will win the 2022 midterms?
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The odds are stacked against them...and your method does nothing to help that scenario. You are right in principle but in practice we might as well just hand them the House...

Voters in Wisconsin aren't going to vote Dem because the caucus labelled Manchin as unpure. Dems aren't like that. You either have to run on what has actually been done (this is why passing Infrastructure is huge) or show how not electing the Dem is the worse alternative. If the Dems run a purity test style campaign they will get slaughtered in the midterms.

Schumer needs to bring everything to the floor and force votes. Take the losses and show the obstructionism. If the Dems can't be motivated to vote in the face of that they aren't gonna vote because Jaime Harrison spends the next 1.5 years bellyaching about how Manchin is a meanie and not worthy of Dem support. Get through judges (as many as possible cause the next 4 years is gonna be crazy for the system) and push through whatever can pass in the agenda and force the GOP to filibuster everything and hope it is enough to get people to vote. Don't run on promises, run on the idea that obstructionism = end of democracy.
 
According to DKE, a progressive group has found Lisa Murkowski would advance to the general election, but lose to both Tshibaka and Gross, with Tshibaka winning 54-46. It’s early, it’s a progressive group running the poll, and Murkowski has been left for dead before, so lots of caveats, but not a good sign for her early.
 
So dumpy subpoenad apple for Dems phone info - swalwell and schiff- and Tim Apple apparently handed them over? Also their family members and minor children phone records.

im sure it’s only an issue if a dem president does it
 
psych said:
According to DKE, a progressive group has found Lisa Murkowski would advance to the general election, but lose to both Tshibaka and Gross, with Tshibaka winning 54-46. It’s early, it’s a progressive group running the poll, and Murkowski has been left for dead before, so lots of caveats, but not a good sign for her early.
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I have many doubts about the accuracy of that.
 
Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
So dumpy subpoenad apple for Dems phone info - swalwell and schiff- and Tim Apple apparently handed them over? Also their family members and minor children phone records.

im sure it’s only an issue if a dem president does it
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The same Apple that wouldnt crack an ISIS terrorist phone?

Fuck Apple...no matter how much hipsters pretend otherwise they are just as evil as everyone else. And their products are overrated crap anyways...
 
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