117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

[rufus]

So people who don’t work that hard want to share in the output of other people’s labor? Sounds like socialism to me....

No, its pure capitalism. You take in the lion's share of the profits, while exploiting the laborers who actually do the work, by paying them subsistence wages.

Unfortunately, you can't offshore childcare, or they'd be doing that too. But they do the next best thing, and hire illegals and pay them less than the minimum wage.

Because, free markets!!!!

 

[Kepler]

So people who don’t work that hard want to share in the output of other people’s labor? Sounds like socialism to me....

If compensation were based on effort our income structure would be exactly inverted.

 

[SJHovey]

Oh horse hockey. What you see are "studies" paid for by industries who use the minimum wage as an excuse for job cutting they were already going to do anyway to try to prevent further wage increases in the future.

Well, I think that the CBO did an analysis of the issue back during Obama's second term, as they were talking about a minimum wage increase. Was that the kind of paid industry study you were thinking about, or was it another one?

Everyone always assumes that if they just give businesses time, if they bring it in over 3-4 years, employment won't be affected. What no one realizes is that all you are doing over those 3-4 years is giving businesses time to figure out how to be more efficient, to do without the same number of employees that it had before.

You can't say that it affects all businesses the same way, because it doesn't. For some businesses, labor is a huge cost of doing business. For others, not as much. In some businesses, even a tiny increase in costs (labor or otherwise) makes a huge difference because they are in an industry that is very price sensitive, other businesses, not so much.

But it's the businesses that are going to be most affected by the increase that people like Manchin are going to hear from, and that's why it was a misstep, at this point in the nation's economy, to make that move, imho.

 

[psych]

Well, not to be condescending, but it sounds like it’s possible you voted for the wrong President. Like you said yourself, when you’re in power, pass everything you can, in any way you can. F-ck the supposed consequences of raising the minimum wage. I’m sure Biden’s team has looked more thoroughly into those outcomes than either you or I have, including across different sectors of the economy. Now is the best time, if you’re a Democrat, to push through reforms, since we’re in, um, control of everything. That’s not to say the minimum wage will be in the final bill, but from the looks of it, I’m more willing to make deals with the GOP than Biden...and that gets me a little excited.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Lindsey Graham is cock blocking Dick Durbin from becoming Judiciary Committee chair.

 

[jerphisch]

Well, I think that the CBO did an analysis of the issue back during Obama's second term, as they were talking about a minimum wage increase. Was that the kind of paid industry study you were thinking about, or was it another one?

Everyone always assumes that if they just give businesses time, if they bring it in over 3-4 years, employment won't be affected. What no one realizes is that all you are doing over those 3-4 years is giving businesses time to figure out how to be more efficient, to do without the same number of employees that it had before.

You can't say that it affects all businesses the same way, because it doesn't. For some businesses, labor is a huge cost of doing business. For others, not as much. In some businesses, even a tiny increase in costs (labor or otherwise) makes a huge difference because they are in an industry that is very price sensitive, other businesses, not so much.

But it's the businesses that are going to be most affected by the increase that people like Manchin are going to hear from, and that's why it was a misstep, at this point in the nation's economy, to make that move, imho.

Productivity has grown 6x more than wages over the last 4.5 decades, maybe this wouldn't be an issue if people were already paid their actual worth. Just because you've been screwing people over for a long time doesn't mean you should continue to do so. People>Profit.

 

[SJHovey]

Well, not to be condescending, but it sounds like it’s possible you voted for the wrong President. Like you said yourself, when you’re in power, pass everything you can, in any way you can. F-ck the supposed consequences of raising the minimum wage. I’m sure Biden’s team has looked more thoroughly into those outcomes than either you or I have, including across different sectors of the economy. Now is the best time, if you’re a Democrat, to push through reforms, since we’re in, um, control of everything. That’s not to say the minimum wage will be in the final bill, but from the looks of it, I’m more willing to make deals with the GOP than Biden...and that gets me a little excited.

I don't regret voting for Biden. Not at all. If he wants to make it one of his agenda items to increase the federal minimum wage, I don't fault him for it.

My point made in this thread was that he made a misstep in terms of how and when he pushed that agenda item. Covid relief is important, pretty much everyone agrees that some sort of relief is necessary, and furthermore, it's needed sooner rather than later. Tying the proposal in with more controversial proposals which don't have the same time sensitivity was a mistake, as I said. It would sort of be like tying in Covid relief with court packing or changes to the voting rights act or something like that.

Politically what Biden was trying to do is this. He knows that Covid relief has bi-partisan support, at least at some level, and also has broad public appeal. He's trying to tie a political turd to it, sort of like flavoring cough medicine.

 

[psych]

I don't regret voting for Biden. Not at all. If he wants to make it one of his agenda items to increase the federal minimum wage, I don't fault him for it.

My point made in this thread was that he made a misstep in terms of how and when he pushed that agenda item. Covid relief is important, pretty much everyone agrees that some sort of relief is necessary, and furthermore, it's needed sooner rather than later. Tying the proposal in with more controversial proposals which don't have the same time sensitivity was a mistake, as I said. It would sort of be like tying in Covid relief with court packing or changes to the voting rights act or something like that.

Politically what Biden was trying to do is this. He knows that Covid relief has bi-partisan support, at least at some level, and also has broad public appeal. He's trying to tie a political turd to it, sort of like flavoring cough medicine.

A political turd according to whom? Raising the minimum wage is almost as popular with the American public as Covid relief.

 

[Kepler]

I don't regret voting for Biden. Not at all. If he wants to make it one of his agenda items to increase the federal minimum wage, I don't fault him for it.

My point made in this thread was that he made a misstep in terms of how and when he pushed that agenda item. Covid relief is important, pretty much everyone agrees that some sort of relief is necessary, and furthermore, it's needed sooner rather than later. Tying the proposal in with more controversial proposals which don't have the same time sensitivity was a mistake, as I said. It would sort of be like tying in Covid relief with court packing or changes to the voting rights act or something like that.

Politically what Biden was trying to do is this. He knows that Covid relief has bi-partisan support, at least at some level, and also has broad public appeal. He's trying to tie a political turd to it, sort of like flavoring cough medicine.

Your concern is noted.

I'm not sure you realize that your political priorities and preferences are quite different from most Americans'.

 

[SJHovey]

A political turd according to whom? Raising the minimum wage is almost as popular with the American public as Covid relief.

Well, apparently not in all areas, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

 

[Kepler]

Well, apparently not in all areas, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

Since when has Republican obstructionism reflected anything but their desire to sabotage the opposition?

 

[SJHovey]

Since when has Republican obstructionism reflected anything but their desire to sabotage the opposition?

I'll have to look back, but I thought we were having this minimum wage discussion not because your friend Mitch was obstructing you, but because some of Chuckie's cats were threatening to abandon the herd?

 

[Kepler]

I'll have to look back, but I thought we were having this minimum wage discussion not because your friend Mitch was obstructing you, but because some of Chuckie's cats were threatening to abandon the herd?

The difference between the caucuses is Dems have defections while Nazis don't. Nazis don't have to listen to their constituents when policy priorities don't match because Nazi voters don't vote on policy, they vote on bigotry and spite.

Dems actually have to listen to their constituents' policy preferences because our voters aren't spoiled children and domestic terrorists.

 

[LynahFan]

I'll have to look back, but I thought we were having this minimum wage discussion not because your friend Mitch was obstructing you, but because some of Chuckie's cats were threatening to abandon the herd?

I thought it was because you were recommending that they *should* abandon the herd.

 

[Kepler]

I thought it was because you were recommending that they *should* abandon the herd.

Hovey's fiat is a proxy for God's. That's how the Conservative Mind functions.

 

[SJHovey]

I thought it was because you were recommending that they *should* abandon the herd.

I'm too lazy to look back, but I think what happened was someone posted something about Manchin's public statement that he couldn't support the minimum wage component of the Covid bill, and maybe there was someone else in the caucus, too. I didn't comment so much on the merits of Manchin's decision, or anyone else's for that matter. I just thought it was dumb to include that in the Covid bill if the desire is to get something passed right away.

 

[Kepler]

Noted. Logged.

 

[Kepler]

Mitch's little pout went nowhere.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) announced Wednesday morning that he and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) had finally finished haggling over the organizing resolution, meaning that Democrats will be able to take over committee chairmanships.

He added that the Senate will vote on the resolution today.

“Committees can promptly set up and get to work with Democrats holding the gavels,” Schumer said, adding that he’s “confident our members are ready to hit the ground running on the most important issues facing our country.”

Negotiations over the resolution were delayed after McConnell declared, just a day into the Biden administration, that he would filibuster its passage unless Democrats promised not to abolish the filibuster — which would strip him, and his Republican minority, of the ability to block any legislation they don’t like.

Schumer, backed by a unified caucus, refused to make such a promise. The standoff dragged on, leaving the Senate in a bizarre limbo where many committees were still chaired by Republicans held over from the last Congress.

Democrats, even moderates like Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), expressed anger at McConnell’s bald power grab.

“Chuck has the right to do what he’s doing,” Manchin told reporters at the time. “He has the right to use that to leverage in whatever he wants to do.”

McConnell ultimately stood down, taking statements from Manchin and Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ) expressing their opposition to the filibuster as good enough.

All the POS accomplished was draining some time and energy away from movement on COVID relief. Because he's a psychopath and his party are terrorists.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

So we can finally get the Garland confirmation going?

 

[St. Clown]

For those who still don't understand why there's such a push for a higher min. wage:

I've been in and out of retail for over 10 years. And while I will tell you the physical aspect isn't that hard (not for me, anyway), I will tell you getting berated by some middle age WASP for something that's way outside your pay grade is emotionally taxing. I get called "sir" by customers all day. That sucks. I've had friends who get called fat and are insulted for even daring to take a lunch or get a light snack while at work. One day, I pulled a dirty diaper out of a cart.

Then there's managers who criticize you for daring to use the bathroom. Who tell you you need to keep up, without jumping into the fray themselves. Who will downgrade you or decide to terminate you because every customer you asked that day declined to apply for the store credit card or sign up for the advanced membership. So on.
And to get up every day, put on your Customer Service Personality, the one who went to Harvard, does 3 hours of yoga daily, drinks green smoothies with 27 exotic ingredients, and pretends nothing is ever wrong for 8 to 10 hours a day before going home... that's a skill. And while I've been in retail, I've witnessed several of my peers fall into heavy drinking or smoking or various addictions to cope.

This is why I have no issues with retail/service employees being paid a higher minimum wage. A lot of my peers are simply asking if they have to put on the Customer Service Personality, to make it worth their time and efforts.

I worked retail in college, a whole list of different tasks for just a few employers. While working at Sam's Club I was in the tire & battery sales department (I floated between installs and sales). During a sales day, my first since coming back from a week off work, a price had changed on a very popular tire - there were a lot of Ford Explorers in St. Cloud back then. I didn't know about the price change, and told the woman I was helping the price I knew prior to my time off. I then went back to grab the tire and it had increased by $5/tire. I told the woman this before running through the sale and this sour old lady spat at me that I had lied to her. I was a couple months from graduating college and decided I didn't much care about the consequences, so I told her flat out, "No, ma'am. I was wrong, I didn't lie. Lying denotes intent to deceive, and I have no reason to lie to you as I gain nothing from it. II was simply wrong. Would you like to continue with the sale or not?" I even offered to put her in touch with my manager, if she'd like. The woman behind the old lady then started cheering me on after having witnessed the whole thing. Simply put, some people are just jerks in life. My situation was different than yours, I understand that, but it also showed that there are (were?) still people willing to show the store employees respect for the work they do.