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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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Edit: I can't believe that not only did Handy post this in another thread but I actually responded to his post (albeit a few down) before re-posting this.
 
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Kepler said:
Grab this money with one hand, grab another 5 or 10 times it by reconciliation with the other.

When the GOP screeches ignore them.
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That's true. We get Two Reconciles. So, we take what they give us here then we pound them the next two. Cause they're never going to give us anything any other time.
 
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/qanon-fears-that-greenes-obsession-with-jewish-space-lasers-is-distracting-her-from-battling-baby-eating-cannibals?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=onsite-share&utm_brand=the-new-yorker&utm_social-type=earned
QAnon leaders are increasingly concerned that Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene’s obsession with Jewish space lasers is distracting her from her core mission of battling baby-eating cannibals.

In an emergency meeting of QAnon elders, the conspiracy theorists issued a communiqué warning Greene to “stay on point.”


“We sent you to Washington as an anti-cannibal candidate for a reason,” the communiqué read. “Your focus on Jewish space lasers, while totally valid, may impair your effectiveness in defeating the international baby-eating cabal.”

Greene responded by saying that, while she was “capable of multitasking,” she had received QAnon’s message “loud and clear.”

“The great thing about QAnon is we can always discuss things rationally, despite Bernie Sanders’s attempts to control our minds with his Jewish magic mittens,” she said.
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor...m_brand=the-new-yorker&utm_social-type=earned
Click to expand...
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor...m_brand=the-new-yorker&utm_social-type=earned
 
Kepler said:
Grab this money with one hand, grab another 5 or 10 times it by reconciliation with the other.

When the GOP screeches ignore them.
Click to expand...

Or just use Reconciliation to pass this one and still have a second one to use for something else that needs to be done.
 
Handyman said:
Or just use Reconciliation to pass this one and still have a second one to use for something else that needs to be done.
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I see Kepler has finally come around to my position that I argued with you about a couple of months ago, which is that Pelosi was a fool for not taking the relief the Republicans would agree to last summer and fall, then come back and ask for more. As I told you back then, you guys negotiate like you're buying a car, like if you agree to a number, that number is set in stone and there is no going back and renegotiating.
 
SJHovey said:
I see Kepler has finally come around to my position that I argued with you about a couple of months ago, which is that Pelosi was a fool for not taking the relief the Republicans would agree to last summer and fall, then come back and ask for more. As I told you back then, you guys negotiate like you're buying a car, like if you agree to a number, that number is set in stone and there is no going back and renegotiating.
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Did they not agree to $2000 with which another $1400 + the previous $600 would satisfy?
 
SJHovey said:
I see Kepler has finally come around to my position that I argued with you about a couple of months ago, which is that Pelosi was a fool for not taking the relief the Republicans would agree to last summer and fall, then come back and ask for more. As I told you back then, you guys negotiate like you're buying a car, like if you agree to a number, that number is set in stone and there is no going back and renegotiating.
Click to expand...

I remember the conversation. At the time, Trump’s White House said it was cool with 1.8 trillion. McConnell said “F-ck that.” If Nancy and Chuck had said “Okay”, it would have been interesting to see how much different the number would have been versus the $900 billion that eventually passed. Now that the Democrats have regained a little leverage thanks to their Georgia Senate wins, I have no problem with them passing the $600 billion in coronavirus relief Collins et al. are offering, and then bypassing the GOP altogether in budget reconciliation. When you were conversing with Handy, Democrats obviously didn’t have that option. They do now. Maybe Manchin will accept another $600-900 billion on top of that. Work with him and see what it’ll take to up the price tag.
 
SJHovey said:
I see Kepler has finally come around to my position that I argued with you about a couple of months ago, which is that Pelosi was a fool for not taking the relief the Republicans would agree to last summer and fall, then come back and ask for more. As I told you back then, you guys negotiate like you're buying a car, like if you agree to a number, that number is set in stone and there is no going back and renegotiating.
Click to expand...

That wasn't going to pass though. Mitch said he wouldn't even bring it to the floor. He wanted basically what the Republicans want now...a BS faux relief bill. Pelosi would have passed it and nothing would have been done. If the Dems had controlled the Senate at the time I think they would have taken the deal but in this case you are giving Trump a good headline and no one actually gets any help. Why waste the time? If there was any indication the GOP would break ranks with Mitch you would be 100% correct but we both know that wasn't happening.

Kepler is wrong here too. We have a chance to pass two bills through Reconciliation. We can't waste them both on this which is what he is basically advocating. Pass this now and pass another part of the agenda with your other option. The only ones who are against the relief package are the GOPers in Congress who all of a sudden care about deficits again. The people are on board. Biden is allowing them to share some spotlight if they get on board, but the crap they are preaching is BS. It doesn't help the middle class, it wont help the economy and it has zero money for state and local governments.

And BTW since when don't the GOP negotiate the same way you describe the Democrats? They literally never move an inch and celebrate it openly. I find that take rather bizarre.
 
psych said:
I remember the conversation. At the time, Trump’s White House said it was cool with 1.8 trillion. McConnell said “F-ck that.” If Nancy and Chuck had said “Okay”, it would have been interesting to see how much different the number would have been versus the $900 billion that eventually passed. Now that the Democrats have regained a little leverage thanks to their Georgia Senate wins, I have no problem with them passing the $600 billion in coronavirus relief Collins et al. are offering, and then bypassing the GOP altogether in budget reconciliation. When you were conversing with Handy, Democrats obviously didn’t have that option. They do now. Maybe Manchin will accept another $600-900 billion on top of that. Work with him and see what it’ll take to up the price tag.
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Manchin's Governor wants more than the GOP is offering. Passing that bill is a waste of time and would be an Obama Level mistake IMHO. Bipartisanship is important and I fully support the idea of Biden trying to work with the GOP on this if they are acting in good faith. Having Collins and Co. come to the WH to discuss this is a smart move. Just taking their deal to prove your bipartisan bonafides is stupid and wasteful and will hurt him more than it will help him. He doesnt need them to pass a package that is much better than theirs, he is in the power position. You don't give that up for a mediocre headline unless it actually will help people.
 
Handyman said:
And BTW since when don't the GOP negotiate the same way you describe the Democrats? They literally never move an inch and celebrate it openly. I find that take rather bizarre.
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The difference, though, is based upon what you are trying to achieve.

Let's say the D's want to pass a relief package. Or maybe a healthcare package. Or maybe student loan forgiveness. Whatever it is that they want to "give" to the American public.

The R's position is "no." Well, of course it makes no sense for the R's to compromise, even slightly. Their position is "no."

But if you're the D's, and if you can get the R's (or enough of them) to give you 1/4 of what you want, why don't you take it, then come back for the remaining 3/4. Nothing prohibits you from doing this. Your goal is to extract money from the R's "no" position. Take what you can get, then come back for more.

I'd tell the R's the same thing if it was for a tax cut or something. If the R's want a 10% tax cut and the D's say "no, we won't give you a 10% cut, but we'll give you 5%," my response would be the same. Take it. Nothing prevents you from coming back and asking for more.
 
Because they won't give you the remaining 3/4. And you've wasted months, and destroyed your support among the public by trying to negotiate with these bastids. People need help now.

Or, you pass the entire thing through reconciliation. And then pass another huge thing that helps people with your second available reconciliation option.
 
rufus said:
It's war time, pick a side. Democracy or Nazis, your choice.
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At the moment, the choice is pretty easy and obvious to me - choose democracy and, if I had a gun to my head to join some political party for some reason, it would be the Democratic party without hesitation.


I'm more kvetching that the moderates have mostly fled the GOP.
 
SJHovey said:
I see Kepler has finally come around to my position that I argued with you about a couple of months ago, which is that Pelosi was a fool for not taking the relief the Republicans would agree to last summer and fall, then come back and ask for more. As I told you back then, you guys negotiate like you're buying a car, like if you agree to a number, that number is set in stone and there is no going back and renegotiating.
Click to expand...

That's not what I said.

I'm saying don't negotiate with conservatives. They are terrorists. Take everything they agree to then immediately shiv them in the eye.

For forty years they did it to us and everybody but a handful of Plutes paid. Drive them into the sea and then nuke the sea. Conservatives are the enemy of Americans.

That's. What I am saying.
 
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