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115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
- Thread starter joecct
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mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
sexism was (is) an excuse. she was prolly the only human who could have lost to tD.
sexism was (is) an excuse. she was prolly the only human who could have lost to tD.
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
Saying HC lost because she was the worst possible candidate is used too often as cover for people to rationalize voting for Trump. Not saying you are doing that mookie, but it's often done. I believe she had a lot of strong points, but even if you disagree with that you must admit she was gold to Trump's tin. Too many dems and independents stayed home, but people who voted for Trump have no excuse. He's catastrophically bad but no worse than we had every reason to expect. As unappealing as she was to many, HRC was far, far better.
Saying HC lost because she was the worst possible candidate is used too often as cover for people to rationalize voting for Trump. Not saying you are doing that mookie, but it's often done. I believe she had a lot of strong points, but even if you disagree with that you must admit she was gold to Trump's tin. Too many dems and independents stayed home, but people who voted for Trump have no excuse. He's catastrophically bad but no worse than we had every reason to expect. As unappealing as she was to many, HRC was far, far better.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
She lost because of 20 years of RW bashing seeping into the mainstream and being a mediocre campaigner.
She lost because of 20 years of RW bashing seeping into the mainstream and being a mediocre campaigner.
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
My point, though, was not why she lost. It was that those who support Trump, actively or passively, rationalize it with criticism of HC, as if it was a difficult choice.
My point, though, was not why she lost. It was that those who support Trump, actively or passively, rationalize it with criticism of HC, as if it was a difficult choice.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
When it comes down to it Trump’s economic message and blaming immigrants who “took er jerbs” despite clearly being snake oil BS resonated more with coal miners, Steel workers, and those smaller towns that might’ve voted for Obama last time. Her message of unpaid internships clearly didn’t. Obviously we know his message was BS but they were willing to take the risk out of desperation. Whoever the dem is next go round needs to realize this and fix the message. Higher min wage, Medicare for all, free college, all of these things can win and we need merely campaigning on it isn’t gonna be enough lest you want a repeat of 2010.
And yeah obviously that isn’t the only factor but it’s probably the best explanation of why Dems sat out.
When it comes down to it Trump’s economic message and blaming immigrants who “took er jerbs” despite clearly being snake oil BS resonated more with coal miners, Steel workers, and those smaller towns that might’ve voted for Obama last time. Her message of unpaid internships clearly didn’t. Obviously we know his message was BS but they were willing to take the risk out of desperation. Whoever the dem is next go round needs to realize this and fix the message. Higher min wage, Medicare for all, free college, all of these things can win and we need merely campaigning on it isn’t gonna be enough lest you want a repeat of 2010.
And yeah obviously that isn’t the only factor but it’s probably the best explanation of why Dems sat out.
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Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
I'd say a few things going forward:
1) Everybody to the left the current GOP needs to realize once and for all that the Republican party is a treasonous money laundering cult. Yes, once in awhile a Collins or a McCain will do the right thing, but then they get pulled back in. Electing any GOP representative on the national level is to further the influence of the treasonous money laundering cult and its loathsome leaders.
2) With #1 in mind, the place for Dems to sort out their differences is in the primaries. For example, say Miranda (I'd been calling her Samantha previously) from Sex and the City doesn't think Cuomo is liberal enough. Great, then do exactly what she's doing and make him face the Dem voters. If she wins, cool. If she loses...
then Dem primary voters need to go all out for the nominee, in 99.9% of races, because the alternative is another cult member. That's the lesson learned from 2016, I hope. Something similar happened in IL this year where a conservdem got primaried but won. Keep challenging the guy if you don't like his votes, but don't sit out elections if he's the nominee.
3) Lastly on issues, Dems need a baseline of policy stances that at the very least they all agree on. Expanded Medicare (whether that's Medicare for all or a buy in from 50 plus is something that can be sorted out after assuming power). Free public school college tuition. Increased clean energy. Rich paying their fair share. Keep it simple, define the principles and leave it at that for the campaign. Everyone on the Dem spectrum from Manchin to Sanders ought to be comfortable getting behind this.
I'd say a few things going forward:
1) Everybody to the left the current GOP needs to realize once and for all that the Republican party is a treasonous money laundering cult. Yes, once in awhile a Collins or a McCain will do the right thing, but then they get pulled back in. Electing any GOP representative on the national level is to further the influence of the treasonous money laundering cult and its loathsome leaders.
2) With #1 in mind, the place for Dems to sort out their differences is in the primaries. For example, say Miranda (I'd been calling her Samantha previously) from Sex and the City doesn't think Cuomo is liberal enough. Great, then do exactly what she's doing and make him face the Dem voters. If she wins, cool. If she loses...
then Dem primary voters need to go all out for the nominee, in 99.9% of races, because the alternative is another cult member. That's the lesson learned from 2016, I hope. Something similar happened in IL this year where a conservdem got primaried but won. Keep challenging the guy if you don't like his votes, but don't sit out elections if he's the nominee.
3) Lastly on issues, Dems need a baseline of policy stances that at the very least they all agree on. Expanded Medicare (whether that's Medicare for all or a buy in from 50 plus is something that can be sorted out after assuming power). Free public school college tuition. Increased clean energy. Rich paying their fair share. Keep it simple, define the principles and leave it at that for the campaign. Everyone on the Dem spectrum from Manchin to Sanders ought to be comfortable getting behind this.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
I'm good with all of this, although we're still going to need some latitude on 3. I'd much rather a Manchin in the tent p-ssing out than a Republican p-ssing in. Blue dogs are fine as long as we give them nothing in the way of goodies. I'll never turn away a Democratic Member, but they have to come in knowing that when we whip we mean it and they don't get to be autonomous. The Republicans maintained this discipline for decades and it served them well -- they made a revolution (albeit for a bitterly anti-American agenda) from it.
I'm good with all of this, although we're still going to need some latitude on 3. I'd much rather a Manchin in the tent p-ssing out than a Republican p-ssing in. Blue dogs are fine as long as we give them nothing in the way of goodies. I'll never turn away a Democratic Member, but they have to come in knowing that when we whip we mean it and they don't get to be autonomous. The Republicans maintained this discipline for decades and it served them well -- they made a revolution (albeit for a bitterly anti-American agenda) from it.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
Dems in red districts need the freedom to lean conservative on issues like guns, while criticizing fiscal policies that are killing blue collar voters. What Connor Lamb did in PA is the model for how to run as a Dem in a red district.
Dems in red districts need the freedom to lean conservative on issues like guns, while criticizing fiscal policies that are killing blue collar voters. What Connor Lamb did in PA is the model for how to run as a Dem in a red district.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
And then he'll be told to go party line or else he won't have Soros's backing again. There's no room for picking and choosing issues on either side anymore. It's exactly why Michael Savage chose not to run. Believe me, I'd love to see representatives having ideas instead of think tanks. That's one of the reasons third party is so intriguing.
I will note, though, that you seem to be falling into the "D" trap here.
And then he'll be told to go party line or else he won't have Soros's backing again. There's no room for picking and choosing issues on either side anymore. It's exactly why Michael Savage chose not to run. Believe me, I'd love to see representatives having ideas instead of think tanks. That's one of the reasons third party is so intriguing.
I will note, though, that you seem to be falling into the "D" trap here.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
Agreed. The Dem problem is that when they see this reality they run a centrist national campaign. That's pointless (it attracts no conservatives as they have been thoroughly brainwashed by Fox) and damaging (it creates the ratchet effect where the GOP makes gains and then we merely hold the line). The GOP is out there running nutbar national campaigns and then they let moderates prevaricate locally. We need to do the same. Get full throated liberals out there screaming for class warfare (you want a message that will retake PA, OH and WI? There it is right there.) and then let centrists in fondler districts shoot off guns in their ads hurr hurr.
Agreed. The Dem problem is that when they see this reality they run a centrist national campaign. That's pointless (it attracts no conservatives as they have been thoroughly brainwashed by Fox) and damaging (it creates the ratchet effect where the GOP makes gains and then we merely hold the line). The GOP is out there running nutbar national campaigns and then they let moderates prevaricate locally. We need to do the same. Get full throated liberals out there screaming for class warfare (you want a message that will retake PA, OH and WI? There it is right there.) and then let centrists in fondler districts shoot off guns in their ads hurr hurr.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
Michael Savage chose not to run because he can vacuum saps' wallets from where he is without risking being completely embarrassed with single digit polling.
Michael Savage chose not to run because he can vacuum saps' wallets from where he is without risking being completely embarrassed with single digit polling.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
You've been screaming the class warfare message for the last 10 years, and you lost this time around. People want positivity, not to constantly be against something else.
One thing we can agree on, though: Pandering to the middle is what loses elections in this day and age. It is important to motivate your base. This is why Obama won in 2008 and 2012, and why Bush won in 2004. No one wants a leader who puts compromise first, because that means you have no idea where the person is going. Alex Jones has been giving a metaphor on some of his promos lately: "The time to choose sides is now." I'd say Trump motivated his base in 2016, and Sanders really motivated the base as well. That would be why we're more polarized than ever, and a number of the fringe left have become quite violent.
You've been screaming the class warfare message for the last 10 years, and you lost this time around. People want positivity, not to constantly be against something else.
One thing we can agree on, though: Pandering to the middle is what loses elections in this day and age. It is important to motivate your base. This is why Obama won in 2008 and 2012, and why Bush won in 2004. No one wants a leader who puts compromise first, because that means you have no idea where the person is going. Alex Jones has been giving a metaphor on some of his promos lately: "The time to choose sides is now." I'd say Trump motivated his base in 2016, and Sanders really motivated the base as well. That would be why we're more polarized than ever, and a number of the fringe left have become quite violent.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
Maybe you should try reading his statement on it. The one thing that really pushed him over the edge was the trophy hunting of animals, how if he were in the senate as an R, he'd seem obligated to vote party lines, which is against his personal beliefs.
Maybe you should try reading his statement on it. The one thing that really pushed him over the edge was the trophy hunting of animals, how if he were in the senate as an R, he'd seem obligated to vote party lines, which is against his personal beliefs.
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
I can see why an infowars disciple would have an aversion for any tank used for thinking.
I can see why an infowars disciple would have an aversion for any tank used for thinking.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
Thanks, Hannity.
Thanks, Hannity.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
She wasn't mediocre on the campaign trail. She was horrible on the campaign trail. I watched a news clip of her giving a verbal smack down to a democratic grassroots organizer in Minneapolis. How could she ever expect her base to go to the polls for her when that's how she's treating her political allies? The woman was an absolute idiot on the campaign trail.
She wasn't mediocre on the campaign trail. She was horrible on the campaign trail. I watched a news clip of her giving a verbal smack down to a democratic grassroots organizer in Minneapolis. How could she ever expect her base to go to the polls for her when that's how she's treating her political allies? The woman was an absolute idiot on the campaign trail.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
Trump added votes every time he did that. Just saying. Frankly, I'm exhausted over the double standard. She lost. There's a million reasons why she lost. And every single one of them contributed to the loss. Of the things she did wrong the above is probably 657,891st on the list.
Trump added votes every time he did that. Just saying. Frankly, I'm exhausted over the double standard. She lost. There's a million reasons why she lost. And every single one of them contributed to the loss. Of the things she did wrong the above is probably 657,891st on the list.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
Trump added votes by smacking down the "RINO's" like Jeb Bush or little Marco or whatever. I don't have the context of the Clinton clip SC is talking about but I imagine this is quite different from that.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.
So now Marco Rubio is a RINO? Have you seen his policy stances lately? This is what bothers me. People throw out terms like that like Trump is some sort of new wave, regular man conservative. He's not. And everyone in his party is just like him. There is nothing moderate about Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio. Nothing.
So now Marco Rubio is a RINO? Have you seen his policy stances lately? This is what bothers me. People throw out terms like that like Trump is some sort of new wave, regular man conservative. He's not. And everyone in his party is just like him. There is nothing moderate about Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio. Nothing.
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