0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

[Drew S.]

The current laws are not strict enough to weed out the irresponsible ones. As has been noted, the mental health "requirements." Also, the always-mentioned gun show loopholes/etc. On top of that, strictly enforcing the laws that already exist. I'd even be in favor of upping the punishment on the lawbreakers.

The last part of your post makes zero sense when people who commit horrible crimes now barely get a slap on the wrist.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

The last part of your post makes zero sense when people who commit horrible crimes now barely get a slap on the wrist.

That's the point of the last part of my post.

Completely throwing out imaginary situation here: instead of 30 days, suspended, let's give 'em 1 year hard time, no exceptions. Or maybe even more. 5 years? Naw, make it 15. Is someone who isn't a hell-bent criminal gonna start waving around a gun, given there is a possibility of that sort of punishment?

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

If you think you need to carry a concealed weapon then you're delusional and precisely the kind of person I don't want to have access to firearms.

No, I'm quite sane. And I've explained previously why I carry.

I've only drawn from the holster (not on a range or storing) once and that was when I came upon a wild, rabid coyote who didn't like me rousing him from his nap.*

*We agreed that we'd both be better off going our separate ways, and did. I think doggy got the better of that deal.

 

[leswp1]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Firearms have always been present on American highways. The C&C types are usually also the law and order sorts, too, even though they often see the police as being ineffective in protecting them. A person announcing that they have a C&C should put an officer a little more at ease, if they understood the situation better.

Police shootings were either underreported back in the day, or we're seeing more of these incidences more often because we've had a big push for more officers than ever before. Ever since NYC started flooding their streets with new police to crackdown on that hellhole of a town some 20-25 years ago, and it worked, the rest of the nation started following suit. The natural result is that we'll have more marginal officers, the Barney Fifes of the world. Departments need to do a better job of finding people who do well under pressure, and aren't likely to lash out when a situation like this presents itself.

THis isn't just about better under pressure. THey need to have community involvement and presence. It is a helluva lot easier to remain cool and be effective when you know the people you interact with. Not realistic that you know everyone but most communities have their crazy people that are well known to be crazy. THis would be a start

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

THis isn't just about better under pressure. THey need to have community involvement and presence. It is a helluva lot easier to remain cool and be effective when you know the people you interact with. Not realistic that you know everyone but most communities have their crazy people that are well known to be crazy. THis would be a start

This. My uncle, even when in the Highway Patrol and such, and not a beat cop, tried to get to know the people he was serving, or at least have the people he was serving know who he was. He was a by the book cop, never over-stepping, nor letting anyone curry any favor with him.*

*His son once tried to name-drop when being pulled over for speeding. He got out of the ticket, the officer let him go. However, word got back to my uncle, and the punishment was MUCH more severe when my cousin got home. Car? Gone for a month. Going out privileges? 2 months. Basically house arrest. My uncle stone-cold said, "Do not EVER drop my name again. You broke the law, got caught, and you should have paid the price in the first place."

 

[BassAle]

No, I'm quite sane. And I've explained previously why I carry.

I've only drawn from the holster (not on a range or storing) once and that was when I came upon a wild, rabid coyote who didn't like me rousing him from his nap.*

*We agreed that we'd both be better off going our separate ways, and did. I think doggy got the better of that deal.

How do you know it was rabid?


I’ve spent a **** ton of time in the woods in Maine, literally hours from the nearest police officer. Ive come across all sorts of animals, from deer and moose, to coyotes and bears. I’ve never worried about the other people I’ve met. I’ve never once thought I needed a gun.


People with CC permits grossly over estimate the danger they are in every day at best and they’re sociopaths that hope someone tries to rob them so they get to feel like a bad *** and shoot someone at worst.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

How do you know it was rabid?

I guess I stereotyped it based on the foaming at its mouth. Shame on me. Maybe it wasn't rabid.

Either way, I don't like coyotes surprising me. I carry for the four-legged surprises (such as that). And I hope to never have to draw again.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

No, I didn't. We need police officers who aren't so scared and trigger happy. Guns have existed for hundreds of years, and more people owned them, on a per capita basis, than do now. The man never once made a motion to brandish the firearm. The officer should not be in that role.

I'm not saying that C&C is the right thing to do. It's just that we also need officers who aren't skittish little flowers these days; their vetting process when hiring needs to be more substantial.

My point is too fold. Cops have itchy trigger fingers which is a problem. C&C is part of WHY they have itchier trigger fingers than they used to.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

My point is too fold. Cops have itchy trigger fingers which is a problem. C&C is part of WHY they have itchier trigger fingers than they used to.

The trouble is, the only difference that C&C has....is that sometimes it's now legal. C&C doesn't prevent ANYONE from having a concealed gun. It just makes it allowable under certain circumstances.

 

[Deleted member 3166]

The man informed the officer that he had a C&C permit, and that his weapon was in the glove compartment, not on him. He asked the officers (two of them on scene) how to proceed. The younger officer then shot him dead while Mr. Castillo was following the directions he was given. It was all on the body cam and car cam footage.

Sorry but the gun was found in his pocket not the glove compartment. So yes it was on him.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Sorry but the gun was found in his pocket not the glove compartment. So yes it was on him.

To be fair, this is still on the trigger happy cops. Yes, this is me saying it.

 

[Deleted member 3166]

To be fair, this is still on the trigger happy cops. Yes, this is me saying it.

I never said it wasn't. I'm correcting where the gun was nothing more.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I never said it wasn't. I'm correcting where the gun was nothing more.

I know where you stand. Not against you on this one.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

C&C doesn't prevent ANYONE from having a concealed gun. It just makes it allowable under certain circumstances.

80% of C&C killings are simple murder - 904 unjustified killings vs. 224 justified killings. In fact, its far more likely that that a C&C carrier dies of suicide after an unjustified murder than that they actually commit a justified homicide. https://www.commondreams.org/newswi...involving-concealed-carry-killers-2007-latest

We can only wish that only criminals had guns.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Since folks seem to like links to numbers, how about this link. Please note all data is sourced.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Have you ever once addressed anyone elses facts? The answer is no.

Since folks seem to like links to numbers, how about this link. Please note all data is sourced.

Problem #1 with the article: This article is that it throws a bunch of weak facts out - with a faulty approach. When you pile up a ton of false news, you get the illusion of reality. Sic, put your best fact out there rather than a hundred of flawed ones - and try to defend it. Or better yet, respond to any one of the hundreds of facts others post.

Problem #2 with the article: Much of its bogus. It refutes the number of deaths caused by C&C by saying 'well, that's really not so many'.

First point: C&C carriers cause as much crime as they prevent - FBI statistics say that C&C has prevented 50 shooter incidents in 2016/17. Yet it doesn't say that during the same period that C&C holders have murdered a similar number of innocent people. Independently C&C carriers have committed 29 mass shootings since 2007.

Second point: C&C holders are not great people. We've already addressed that with C&C holders fact based anger and belligerence - which is not even addressed. They don't break laws but they are frequently terrible people.

Third point: Strong C&C laws in states increase violence. We've proven time and again how weak gun laws are tied to increased gun deaths. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...d-to-fewer-suicides-and-murders-idUSKBN1GH39W

Fourth point: Police do not love C&C. In fact, police recommend NOT pulling out a gun if held up. Give the criminal the money they want.

How come other countries have cleaned up guns and don't have any of these issues?

 

[Drew S.]

80% of C&C killings are simple murder - 904 unjustified killings vs. 224 justified killings. In fact, its far more likely that that a C&C carrier dies of suicide after an unjustified murder than that they actually commit a justified homicide. https://www.commondreams.org/newswi...involving-concealed-carry-killers-2007-latest

We can only wish that only criminals had guns.

Unjustified could mean one of a lot of different things. It’s a meaningless stat without a lot more information. There is obviously a segment of people who shouldn’t have a CC permit, but that article doesn’t do much the help the case.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Unjustified could mean one of a lot of different things. It’s a meaningless stat without a lot more information.

How are they not unjustified killings by a C&C carrier when the result of each was an immediate suicide or conviction? Each of the now over 1000 cases with names and circumstances includes a suicide or conviction.

From the VPC: The database in fact includes non-self defense killings by private citizens with permits to carry concealed, loaded handguns in public that took place since May 2007. These incidents include homicides, suicides, mass shootings, murder-suicides, lethal attacks on law enforcement, and unintentional deaths. This includes the names of the killers and victims, the legal status of the cases, and the circumstances of the incidents.

Currently, the project documents 1,069 incidents in 40 states and the District of Columbia resulting in 1,289 deaths. In 91 percent of the incidents (968) the concealed carry killer committed suicide (533), has already been convicted (357), perpetrated a murder-suicide (59), or was killed in the incident (19). Of the 66 cases still pending, the vast majority (54) of concealed carry killers have been charged with criminal homicide, five were deemed incompetent to stand trial, and seven incidents are still under investigation. An additional 35 incidents were fatal unintentional shootings involving the gun of the concealed handgun permit holder. Twenty-one of the victims were law enforcement officers. Thirty-two of the incidents were mass shootings, resulting in the deaths of 158 victims.

There is no comprehensive federal database of concealed carry incidents, and some states even bar the release of such information by law. As a result, the examples in these numbers are taken primarily from news reports and from the reporting required in a few states.

 

[Drew S.]

How are they not unjustified killings by a C&C carrier when the result of each was an immediate suicide or conviction? Each of the now over 1000 cases with names and circumstances includes a suicide or conviction.

From the VPC: The database in fact includes non-self defense killings by private citizens with permits to carry concealed, loaded handguns in public that took place since May 2007. These incidents include homicides, suicides, mass shootings, murder-suicides, lethal attacks on law enforcement, and unintentional deaths. This includes the names of the killers and victims, the legal status of the cases, and the circumstances of the incidents.

Currently, the project documents 1,069 incidents in 40 states and the District of Columbia resulting in 1,289 deaths. In 91 percent of the incidents (968) the concealed carry killer committed suicide (533), has already been convicted (357), perpetrated a murder-suicide (59), or was killed in the incident (19). Of the 66 cases still pending, the vast majority (54) of concealed carry killers have been charged with criminal homicide, five were deemed incompetent to stand trial, and seven incidents are still under investigation. An additional 35 incidents were fatal unintentional shootings involving the gun of the concealed handgun permit holder. Twenty-one of the victims were law enforcement officers. Thirty-two of the incidents were mass shootings, resulting in the deaths of 158 victims.

There is no comprehensive federal database of concealed carry incidents, and some states even bar the release of such information by law. As a result, the examples in these numbers are taken primarily from news reports and from the reporting required in a few states.

What does them committing suicide have to do with it? A lot of people who survived the Hillsborough disaster committed suicide, does that mean they were somehow culpable for the tragedy?

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Second point: C&C holders are not great people. ...

You're willing to categorized a group as such? OK. ... DeNiro and James Earl Jones seem like real wretches.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/are-your-favorite-celebrities-licensed-to-carry/139053

(No comment on Trump or Stern.)