0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

They have a gun because they are aggressive. They aren't aggressive just because they have a gun.

I have little doubt that its both. They carry a gun because they are and want to be aggressive...and they become more aggressive when they have a gun. I don't know if gun owners are 77% more likely to aggressively follow someone if they don't actually have a gun with them.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

You missed. Handy's point - Castillo is alive if law enforcement knew there was no possibility of Castillo having a gun.

No, I didn't. We need police officers who aren't so scared and trigger happy. Guns have existed for hundreds of years, and more people owned them, on a per capita basis, than do now. The man never once made a motion to brandish the firearm. The officer should not be in that role.

I'm not saying that C&C is the right thing to do. It's just that we also need officers who aren't skittish little flowers these days; their vetting process when hiring needs to be more substantial.

 

[BassAle]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

They have a gun because they are aggressive. They aren't aggressive just because they have a gun.

some people are certainly more aggressive because they have a gun, since they have that option to defend themselves if they escalate a situation to that point

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I'm not saying that C&C is the right thing to do. It's just that we also need officers who aren't skittish little flowers these days; their vetting process when hiring needs to be more substantial.

I think it safe to say we don't want our law enforcement needlessly shooting innocents and conceal carry doesn't reduce the likelihood of that happening.

 

[aparch]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Japan forbids all small firearms and frequently has as low as 2 gun related homicides a year. Do you think Japanese law enforcement has itchy trigger fingers?

But isn't it also acceptable for the Japanese to commit suicide over facing shame or dis-honor?

Maybe we need to teach these Vanilla ISIS members the same traditions...

 

[Drew S.]

some people are certainly more aggressive because they have a gun, since they have that option to defend themselves if they escalate a situation to that point

Completely agree with this. There is a definitely an element of whacky gun owners who might not necessarily have a mental illness.

 

[rufus]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

No, I didn't. We need police officers who aren't so scared and trigger happy. Guns have existed for hundreds of years, and more people owned them, on a per capita basis, than do now. The man never once made a motion to brandish the firearm. The officer should not be in that role.

I'm not saying that C&C is the right thing to do. It's just that we also need officers who aren't skittish little flowers these days; their vetting process when hiring needs to be more substantial.

Could it possibly be that police officers are more skittish, and likely to use deadly force at the least movement because they don't know just who might be carrying a weapon these days?

Nah, that's just crazy talk.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Could it possibly be that police officers are more skittish, and likely to use deadly force at the least movement because they don't know just who might be carrying a weapon these days?

Nah, that's just crazy talk.

The man informed the officer that he had a C&C permit, and that his weapon was in the glove compartment, not on him. He asked the officers (two of them on scene) how to proceed. The younger officer then shot him dead while Mr. Castillo was following the directions he was given. It was all on the body cam and car cam footage.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

The man informed the officer that he had a C&C permit, and that his weapon was in the glove compartment, not on him. He asked the officers (two of them on scene) how to proceed. The younger officer then shot him dead while Mr. Castillo was following the directions he was given. It was all on the body cam and car cam footage.

And the officer was found innocent of any wrongdoing because guns.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

If Philandro Castille wasn't pulled over by an officer with an itchy trigger finger, he would be alive today. Philandro never once even held the gun when he was pulled over, just told the officer that it was in the glove compartment and then started following orders given to him.

Agreed. And why do you think that cop had an itchy trigger finger perhaps

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

An officer should always consider the possibility of someone having a gun. Now, that doesn't mean the officer approaches with a gun drawn/etc. Just have a plan in case there is a weapon present.

That being said, officers need to be trained better, AND potential officers need to be screened more intensely to make sure they aren't trigger-happy.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Agreed. And why do you think that cop had an itchy trigger finger perhaps

Firearms have always been present on American highways. The C&C types are usually also the law and order sorts, too, even though they often see the police as being ineffective in protecting them. A person announcing that they have a C&C should put an officer a little more at ease, if they understood the situation better.

Police shootings were either underreported back in the day, or we're seeing more of these incidences more often because we've had a big push for more officers than ever before. Ever since NYC started flooding their streets with new police to crackdown on that hellhole of a town some 20-25 years ago, and it worked, the rest of the nation started following suit. The natural result is that we'll have more marginal officers, the Barney Fifes of the world. Departments need to do a better job of finding people who do well under pressure, and aren't likely to lash out when a situation like this presents itself.

 

[rufus]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

An officer should always consider the possibility of someone having a gun. Now, that doesn't mean the officer approaches with a gun drawn/etc. Just have a plan in case there is a weapon present.

That being said, officers need to be trained better, AND potential officers need to be screened more intensely to make sure they aren't trigger-happy.

He wouldn't have to, if everybody didn't have a gun these days. And like you say, anyone who wants one should have one.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

He wouldn't have to, if everybody didn't have a gun these days. And like you say, anyone who wants one should have one.

Anyone who wants one, can prove they are responsible enough to have one, and is mentally balanced enough to have one.

So, not just anyone.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

The C&C types are usually also the law and order sorts, too, even though they often see the police as being ineffective in protecting them. A person announcing that they have a C&C should put an officer a little more at ease, if they understood the situation better.

They may not regularly shoot people, but the statistics showing c&c belligerence don't bare that out. Or maybe the belligerence is just aimed at those who are assumed to not be able to defend themselves.

Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

They may not regularly shoot people, but the statistics showing c&c belligerence don't bare that out. Or maybe the belligerence is just aimed at those who are assumed to not be able to defend themselves.

Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without.

Texans.

Just sayin'.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

The "weapons effect"

Research shows that the mere presence of weapons increases aggression.

“Guns not only permit violence, they can stimulate it as well. The finger pulls the trigger, but the trigger may also be pulling the finger.”

—Leonard Berkowitz, Emeritus Professor of Psychology, University of Wisconsin

A nationally representative sample of over 2,000 American drivers found that those who had a gun in the car were significantly more likely to make obscene gestures at other motorists (23% vs. 16%), aggressively follow another vehicle too closely (14% vs. 8%), or both (6.3% vs. 2.8%), even after controlling for many other factors related to aggressive driving (e.g., gender, age, urbanization, census region, driving frequency). Recent research replicated this finding in a driving simulation experiment.[3]

A more recent meta-analysis of a larger sample of 151 effect-size estimates from 78 independent studies involving 7,668 participants found strong support for the idea that weapons increase the accessibility of aggressive thoughts and hostile appraisals.[11]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/get-psyched/201301/the-weapons-effect

 

[alfablue]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

The "weapons effect"

Research shows that the mere presence of weapons increases aggression.

“Guns not only permit violence, they can stimulate it as well. The finger pulls the trigger, but the trigger may also be pulling the finger.”

—Leonard Berkowitz, Emeritus Professor of Psychology, University of Wisconsin

A nationally representative sample of over 2,000 American drivers found that those who had a gun in the car were significantly more likely to make obscene gestures at other motorists (23% vs. 16%), aggressively follow another vehicle too closely (14% vs. 8%), or both (6.3% vs. 2.8%), even after controlling for many other factors related to aggressive driving (e.g., gender, age, urbanization, census region, driving frequency). Recent research replicated this finding in a driving simulation experiment.[3]

A more recent meta-analysis of a larger sample of 151 effect-size estimates from 78 independent studies involving 7,668 participants found strong support for the idea that weapons increase the accessibility of aggressive thoughts and hostile appraisals.[11]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/get-psyched/201301/the-weapons-effect

You can say that just having a car adds to rage incidents over not having anything. More than one mild mannered person did road rage when they would never do it face to face.

Not sure why people are still in denial that the presence of a powerful tool changes behavior. The person wielding the big stick will always lord over those who do not- people will always act with what they have.

 

[rufus]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Anyone who wants one, can prove they are responsible enough to have one, and is mentally balanced enough to have one.

So, not just anyone.

Seems like lots of people who have proved they are responsible enough to have one have ended up killing someone with it. So, I guess, not responsible enough?


Then, how do you make that decision?

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Seems like lots of people who have proved they are responsible enough to have one have ended up killing someone with it. So, I guess, not responsible enough?


Then, how do you make that decision?

The current laws are not strict enough to weed out the irresponsible ones. As has been noted, the mental health "requirements." Also, the always-mentioned gun show loopholes/etc. On top of that, strictly enforcing the laws that already exist. I'd even be in favor of upping the punishment on the lawbreakers.