0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Ocala Police Department

An incident began as a domestic argument between a male and female in the Garden Center. Once inside the store, the female screamed for help. Walmart personnel called 911 and attempted to intervene. The male shot the female, fled the scene, and is at large. The suspect has been identified. The female has been pronounced deceased and we are working to make contact with the next of kin. The shooter suffered a self-inflicted gunshot wound and was “alive” when he was transported to an area hospital. But in an update hours later, officials said he is not expected to survive.

Another gun carried. Another gun death.

 

[rufus]

Guns are so wonderful.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My God. <br><br>American police just killed another "good guy with a gun."<br><br>Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr., better known as EJ, the son of a police officer, was an active duty officer for the Army, home for Thanksgiving. <br><br>Murdered by police yesterday in a mall shooting in Alabama. <a href="https://t.co/xHsiOPUD5y">pic.twitter.com/xHsiOPUD5y</a></p>— Shaun King (@shaunking) <a href="https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1066317381302132736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 24, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's what happens when everyone has a gun. Police arrive at the scene, and can't differentiate the "good guy with a gun" from the "bad guy with a gun".

Especially when the "good guy with a gun" is black. Cause in law enforcement's eyes, hell, in most people's eyes, they're automatically the "bad guy".

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

No devil in the details. We have solutions. You don't.

Its simple. If you have no solutions to gun deaths...yet hinder us in saving lives, you're complicit.

Incorrect. I don't have the solutions that *you* want. There is a difference.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I don't think that banning anyone that has been convicted of any sort of violent crime from owning a gun, or banning all modifications of any sort that affects the performance of the gun (in other words, it must remain the exact same as the store sold it), plus the mental health clearances, is "nibbling."

And anything short of BANZ THE GUNZ! is met by you and your ilk with "well, then you're not really doing anything."

I quoted the law for you, 2 of your 3 solutions are already the law.

Incorrect. I don't have the solutions that *you* want. There is a difference.

So the one idea you have is no aftermarket modifications. About 30 seconds after that law passes I bet there is a company that offers a "build your own" option so any legal modification you want is included in what you buy from the store. So now you are down to no solutions. Thanks for your inputs and effort to compromise by doing absolutely nothing.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Brent is correct; he's proposed his ideas. You guys just come back and whine it's not enough, accuse him of talking out of both sides of his mouth, and then fail to articulate any more severe ideas that wouldn't require a Constitutional Amendment (which is not going to happen in our lifetimes).

You really want to stick it to the ammosexuals? Work on getting money out of politics - we can start by campaigning to overturn Citizens United. It shouldn't be hard to convince the self-proclaimed anti-globalists to join us in this effort.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Brent is correct; he's proposed his ideas. You guys just come back and whine it's not enough, accuse him of talking out of both sides of his mouth, and then fail to articulate any more severe ideas that wouldn't require a Constitutional Amendment (which is not going to happen in our lifetimes).

You really want to stick it to the ammosexuals? Work on getting money out of politics - we can start by campaigning to overturn Citizens United. It shouldn't be hard to convince the self-proclaimed anti-globalists to join us in this effort.

Eliminating Semi-Autos doesn't require a Constitutional Amendment. Heller covers it.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Brent is correct; he's proposed his ideas. You guys just come back and whine it's not enough, accuse him of talking out of both sides of his mouth, and then fail to articulate any more severe ideas that wouldn't require a Constitutional Amendment (which is not going to happen in our lifetimes).

You really want to stick it to the ammosexuals? Work on getting money out of politics - we can start by campaigning to overturn Citizens United. It shouldn't be hard to convince the self-proclaimed anti-globalists to join us in this effort.

Start by castrating the NRA's influence. That'd be a big one.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Incorrect. I don't have the solutions that *you* want. There is a difference.

No. The solution you have provided limits those who can buy guns by a few percent and does NOT address what you yourself has identified as the primary problem - attitudes towards guns. What is your solution for *attitudes* towards guns?

I think we all agree that the *attitude* towards guns needs to change (in their usage to solve issues, properly storing them when not in use, etc).

Brent is correct; he's proposed his ideas. You guys just come back and whine it's not enough, accuse him of talking out of both sides of his mouth, and then fail to articulate any more severe ideas that wouldn't require a Constitutional Amendment (which is not going to happen in our lifetimes).

The problem isn't that 3% more of gun purchasers shouldn't be buying a gun. And of course, the 3% that shouldn't be buying don't include you.

The problem is that guns are seen as a solution to the psychological problems of fear, anger and self esteem. And that they're allowed to be carried throughout society and used for that purpose. Punishment follows, but by then someone (many) are dead.

Conceal and carry is not required by the constitution...and that's precedence the way it was defined for 200 years. On the other hand, militias are part of the constitution and tied to guns...no?

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I don't know that any of us has a solution to fix the general attitude towards guns. Upbringing/better parenting, so that future generations will have a healthy attitude towards guns? Community leaders trying to change the gang culture (Chicago, looking at you, especially)? I don't know. It'll be a long process whatever it is.

Given that the vast majority of offending gun owners are males, we have to change (IMO) the attitude of having/using a gun makes one more "manly." That's a tough barrier to overcome.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I don't know that any of us has a solution to fix the general attitude towards guns. Upbringing/better parenting, so that future generations will have a healthy attitude towards guns? Community leaders trying to change the gang culture (Chicago, looking at you, especially)? I don't know. It'll be a long process whatever it is.

Given that the vast majority of offending gun owners are males, we have to change (IMO) the attitude of having/using a gun makes one more "manly." That's a tough barrier to overcome.

So increased Govt spending on social programs to reduce poverty in order to reduce the supply of youth to gangs? I'm in!

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I don't know that any of us has a solution to fix the general attitude towards guns. Upbringing/better parenting, so that future generations will have a healthy attitude towards guns? Community leaders trying to change the gang culture (Chicago, looking at you, especially)? I don't know. It'll be a long process whatever it is.

Given that the vast majority of offending gun owners are males, we have to change (IMO) the attitude of having/using a gun makes one more "manly." That's a tough barrier to overcome.

That's why I said 'we have solutions and you don't'. There's no way to 'fix parenting'. You can't say all movies must be rated G. We can't magically give people self esteem or stop fear and anger in humanity.

We can make it so that for that split second where people want to kill someone - they can't. Do you know how many deaths that one simple thing would prevent?

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

So increased Govt spending on social programs to reduce poverty in order to reduce the supply of youth to gangs? I'm in!

I would roll with that, sure. It's not the (pardon the choice of words) magic bullet, but it would help, most definitely.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

That's why I said 'we have solutions and you don't'. There's no way to 'fix parenting'. You can't say all movies must be rated G. We can't magically give people self esteem or stop fear and anger in humanity.

We can make it so that for that split second where people want to kill someone - they can't. Do you know how many deaths that one simple thing would prevent?

While you can't fix parenting, you can certainly help it. Money actually does solve a lot of problems, especially when it comes to kids. Even if it takes a generation or two, investing in the future is the least we could do for our kids. Less poverty may not do anything to change the attitudes of current adults, but it would for the next generation.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

While you can't fix parenting, you can certainly help it. Money actually does solve a lot of problems, especially when it comes to kids. Even if it takes a generation or two, investing in the future is the least we could do for our kids. Less poverty may not do anything to change the attitudes of current adults, but it would for the next generation.

.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Progressive policies on education and social welfare would go a long way towards fixing the male violence problem (which is the heart of the actual problem at hand in this thread, btw).

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

While you can't fix parenting, you can certainly help it. Money actually does solve a lot of problems, especially when it comes to kids. Even if it takes a generation or two, investing in the future is the least we could do for our kids. Less poverty may not do anything to change the attitudes of current adults, but it would for the next generation.

Sure. But that's not the #1 driver behind gun deaths. The presence of a gun is...

And to stop the false logic in advance - no, that doesn't mean 'ban all the guns!'

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Sure. But that's not the #1 driver behind gun deaths. The presence of a gun is...

And to stop the false logic in advance - no, that doesn't mean 'ban all the guns!'

Yeah, it kinda does.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Yeah, it kinda does.

Repeat after me - 'conceal and carry'. (Maybe that will get him to address what he's been desperately trying to avoid for months now)

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Repeat after me - 'conceal and carry'. (Maybe that will get him to address what he's been desperately trying to avoid for months now)

C&C doesn't stop somebody from just grabbing a gun from home and walking into a place and start shooting. It doesn't stop in-house domestic shootings.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

C&C doesn't stop somebody from just grabbing a gun from home and walking into a place and start shooting. It doesn't stop in-house domestic shootings.

Your logic is poor. Just because one thing is true doesn't mean something else is true. Due to immediate access to a gun, conceal and carry directly resulted in the last gun death posted here and tens of thousands of others. It also creates an increased desire for self protection - which adds to more guns to public places and more deaths.