0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

This article is a good read concerning gun statistics. TMWDR: Both sides pick and choose the statistics to say whatever they want them to.

EXAMPLE: The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns. This was based on this article but refuted by this one.

Do not compare gun studies validating the danger of guns...with the junk from John Lott:

Bought and paid for by gun industry: Per WSJ, John Lott's research has been paid for by gun manufacturers for years.

Falsifying surveys: Lott claimed to have undertaken a national survey of 2,424 respondents in 1997. However, in 2000 Lott was unable to produce the data or any records showing that the survey had been undertaken and he could not recall the names of any of the students who he said had worked on it.

Wrote positive reviews of his own work - posing as someone else: Lott created and used "Mary Rosh" as a sock puppet to defend his own works on Usenet and elsewhere. After investigative work by blogger Julian Sanchez, Lott admitted to use of the Mary Rosh persona. Sanchez also pointed out that Lott, posing as Rosh, not only praised his own academic writing, but also called himself "the best professor I ever had".

Bad analytics: In 2001, National Academy of Sciences panel considered multiple regression to be not of much use in proving causal arguments in studies by Lott.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

We don't even have good mental health health care in the country now even without adding the gun issue. You got money for that? Easier just to take the ****ing guns away.

I agree mental health care in this country is an issue, I disagree that it would be easier to take the guns away from everyone.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I agree mental health care in this country is an issue, I disagree that it would be easier to take the guns away from everyone.

You're still going to need a registry, licensing, etc, and computerized records accessible by all law enforcement to even get that off the ground. We don't even have that.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

The BANZ THE GUNZ (or anything similar) is not sustainable or even enforceable.

If you are an honest person. Who here says ban all the guns? Would it be nobody.

Stop with the false information, dude.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

You're still going to need a registry, licensing, etc, and computerized records accessible by all law enforcement to even get that off the ground. We don't even have that.

I think the biggest issue would be the medical privacy laws, and how that would mesh with the mental health checks to get a gun. That's a complex web. No matter what happens, to improve the gun issue will take years and gradual steps to an overall solution. It will take a step here, a step there, and eventually get to where we need to be.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I agree mental health care in this country is an issue, I disagree that it would be easier to take the guns away from everyone.

I think one of the things that makes me saddest about this country is that many if not most of the gun lovers think they have absolute right to own whatever firearms they could possibly want, but also think that healthcare shouldn’t be a right. Blows my mind

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I think the biggest issue would be the medical privacy laws, and how that would mesh with the mental health checks to get a gun. That's a complex web. No matter what happens, to improve the gun issue will take years and gradual steps to an overall solution. It will take a step here, a step there, and eventually get to where we need to be.

Easier just to take the guns away.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

If you are an honest person. Who here says ban all the guns? Would it be nobody.

Stop with the false information, dude.

Scooby has basically said it, with his revolvers/one-shot stance. The vast majority of guns in this country are semi-automatics.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Scooby has basically said it, with his revolvers/one-shot stance. The vast majority of guns in this country are semi-automatics.

Not all guns.

Semi-autos are the defacto choice of mass killers. Bye bye.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Not all guns.

Semi-autos are the defacto choice of mass killers. Bye bye.

Ban the modifications on all guns. What you buy is what you get.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

That's why I hope for double-verified mental health checks before allowing a person to own a gun. Have PTSD? No gun. Depression? No gun. Bi-polar? No gun.

Can people stop saying that the above mental health issues is the cause of gun deaths? They aren't:

The overall contribution of people with serious mental illness to violent crimes is only about 3%. When these crimes are examined in detail, an even smaller percentage of them are found to involve firearms. https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

Gun carriers across the board have general fear issues. And if you stop them from buying guns...gun ownership would be cut to a third.

 

[rufus]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

And there's the base problem in this country.

We can't get rid of guns; that's impossible, so we just need to go back to the days when guys got angry and settled things with their fists. The sensible approach.

 

[rufus]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

That's why I hope for double-verified mental health checks before allowing a person to own a gun. Have PTSD? No gun. Depression? No gun. Bi-polar? No gun.

Cause all angry people just have mental issues.

 

[Drew S.]

I think one of the things that makes me saddest about this country is that many if not most of the gun lovers think they have absolute right to own whatever firearms they could possibly want, but also think that healthcare shouldn’t be a right. Blows my mind

Agreed. That’s why I support gun rights and universal healthcare.

 

[rufus]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Agreed. That’s why I support gun rights and universal healthcare.

And yet, will only vote for gun rights. If you ever vote at all.

 

[Drew S.]

Can people stop saying that the above mental health issues is the cause of gun deaths? They aren't:

The overall contribution of people with serious mental illness to violent crimes is only about 3%. When these crimes are examined in detail, an even smaller percentage of them are found to involve firearms. https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

Gun carriers across the board have general fear issues. And if you stop them from buying guns...gun ownership would be cut to a third.

Judging by these threads, I’d say quite a few non gun owners have fear issues as well.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Can people stop saying that the above mental health issues is the cause of gun deaths? They aren't:

The overall contribution of people with serious mental illness to violent crimes is only about 3%. When these crimes are examined in detail, an even smaller percentage of them are found to involve firearms. https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

Gun carriers across the board have general fear issues. And if you stop them from buying guns...gun ownership would be cut to a third.

3% is acceptable to you? I'll take a 3% decline in gun deaths.
Then you add a law where if you are convicted of any violent crime, you can't own a gun. I'm guessing that'll bring the gun deaths down a little more.

Baby steps to get where we want to be.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Judging by these threads, I’d say quite a few non gun owners have fear issues as well.

And that's relevant how?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Judging by these threads, I’d say quite a few non gun owners have fear issues as well.

And they should because irrational fears in gun carriers create real danger for everyone. That's the lessons from other countries.

3% is acceptable to you? I'll take a 3% decline in gun deaths.
Then you add a law where if you are convicted of any violent crime, you can't own a gun. I'm guessing that'll bring the gun deaths down a little more.

Baby steps to get where we want to be.

OK...fine. We'll take the that.

But if you're suggesting that's a grand compromise - we'll create a solution that addresses say 2% of gun deaths...but stop there. Only a fool would accept that.

Edit: The study even says "Laws intended to reduce gun violence that focus on a population representing less than 3% of all gun violence will be extremely low yield, ineffective, and wasteful of scarce resources. Perpetrators of mass shootings are unlikely to have a history of involuntary psychiatric hospitalization. Thus, databases intended to restrict access to guns and established by guns laws that broadly target people with mental illness will not capture this group of individuals."

 

[rufus]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

All we need to stop these senseless killings is a good guy with a gun.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-chicago-security-guard-shot-by-police_us_5be9a032e4b0caeec2bbcbb3

Unless that good guy just happens to be black.