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0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

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Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

5mn_Major said:
And they should because irrational fears in gun carriers create real danger for everyone. That's the lessons from other countries.



OK...fine. We'll take the that.

But if you're suggesting that's a grand compromise - we'll create a solution that addresses say 2% of gun deaths...but stop there. Only a fool would accept that.

Edit: The study even says "Laws intended to reduce gun violence that focus on a population representing less than 3% of all gun violence will be extremely low yield, ineffective, and wasteful of scarce resources. Perpetrators of mass shootings are unlikely to have a history of involuntary psychiatric hospitalization. Thus, databases intended to restrict access to guns and established by guns laws that broadly target people with mental illness will not capture this group of individuals."
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I'm saying that's a start to something bigger. I would hope that wouldn't be the end of it.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

USA Today takes a look at a week later.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-grill-fearful-residents-buy-guns/1947476002/

Is this true (assuming so based on USA Today)? Six off-duty cops were in the melee.

... was about the six unarmed, off-duty law enforcement officers who were reportedly at the bar during the shooting. Their lack of weapons was a presumed consequence of a California law barring firearms in bars.
...

A former engineer who turned his gun hobby into a livelihood, Von Colln described California’s ever-tightening gun laws as the work of out-of-touch politicians creating a labyrinth of irrational rules so complicated even his clients in law enforcement can’t follow them.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

5mn_Major said:
Gotcha cool.
Click to expand...

To shift such a cultural change in attitude, and reflect that change in new laws/enforcement/etc, it will take time. A lot of time. Look at the marijuana changes going on. That shift is changing, and it's taking years and years.

The gun attitude is really no different. You have to chip away little by little to achieve the greater goal.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Brenthoven said:
To shift such a cultural change in attitude, and reflect that change in new laws/enforcement/etc, it will take time. A lot of time. Look at the marijuana changes going on. That shift is changing, and it's taking years and years.

The gun attitude is really no different. You have to chip away little by little to achieve the greater goal.
Click to expand...

In theory, that makes sense and the attitude is reasonable. Large changes in society are usually incremental. The problem is we are seeing slaughters of innocent people on a regular basis. Not the case with marijuana. The more patient you are, the more people who die.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

dave122793 said:
In theory, that makes sense and the attitude is reasonable. Large changes in society are usually incremental. The problem is we are seeing slaughters of innocent people on a regular basis. Not the case with marijuana. The more patient you are, the more people who die.
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Agreed. However, in the gun issue, if we are to attempt to go full throttle change overnight, those attempts will go nowhere, and we'll be stuck right where we are. I'd rather get 1-2 smaller steps done than none at all, and then take another 1-2 smaller steps, etc etc.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I get it. Just understand the sense of urgency that is involved here and why some people are not happy with the progress (or lack thereof). Too many of our leaders are unwilling to even do the 1-2 smaller steps right now, bump stocks being a good example of that. Gun sense lawmakers may have a majority in the House right now but that means pretty much squat without the Senate and the White House. It's up to the states but since guns and ammo move freely over our borders then State A can have strong gun laws but if they are bordered by States B and C who hand out guns like bubble gum then State A still has a big gun problem.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

dave122793 said:
I get it. Just understand the sense of urgency that is involved here and why some people are not happy with the progress (or lack thereof). Too many of our leaders are unwilling to even do the 1-2 smaller steps right now, bump stocks being a good example of that. Gun sense lawmakers may have a majority in the House right now but that means pretty much squat without the Senate and the White House. It's up to the states but since guns and ammo move freely over our borders then State A can have strong gun laws but if they are bordered by States B and C who hand out guns like bubble gum then State A still has a big gun problem.
Click to expand...

I fully understand that. It sucks, and it's why we all have to keep pushing for the smaller changes first. Make the people in charge actually take those smaller steps.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Brenthoven said:
Agreed. However, in the gun issue, if we are to attempt to go full throttle change overnight, those attempts will go nowhere, and we'll be stuck right where we are. I'd rather get 1-2 smaller steps done than none at all, and then take another 1-2 smaller steps, etc etc.
Click to expand...

I do respect that POV. But I think there is a time and place to take aggressive action.

Take womens rights. There were a couple of periods of major change - women's suffrage and ERA (including RBG's major contributions) - each had a backlash. But without those times of major change, there's no way that small incremental steps would lead to what today is getting quite close to equal rights.

Take civil rights. We took a go slow approach for decades since the civil war. But that left us at the start of the '60s with still a pretty horrible civil rights situation. It took MLK and major civil rights legislation under LBJ to make any real difference. And we still have a ways to go in many pockets in this country - which could be helped by another lurch forward.

So incremental change is good. But at some point we need to stand up and risk upsetting the apple cart to progress for future generational improvement.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Brenthoven said:
Agreed. However, in the gun issue, if we are to attempt to go full throttle change overnight, those attempts will go nowhere, and we'll be stuck right where we are. I'd rather get 1-2 smaller steps done than none at all, and then take another 1-2 smaller steps, etc etc.
Click to expand...

Smaller steps are already going nowhere, we are going in the opposite direction. Time to slam on the brakes, throw it in reverse and hope the tranny doesn't fall on the road.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

jerphisch said:
Smaller steps are already going nowhere, we are going in the opposite direction. Time to slam on the brakes, throw it in reverse and hope the tranny doesn't fall on the road.
Click to expand...

Until you get rid of the source of the disease it won't go well. When you have orgs like the NRA peddling fear of the boogie man and the fear someone will steal their rights people are going to believe them and wail about all the nonsense we have seen in this thread about 'rightz!!!'. Until you win the war of attitude you lose. The 'logic' of some of this stuff is so ridiculous you have to wonder about how someone can say it with a straight face. But they do. Read back. People in this thread buy it and post all the 'talking points' without any real thought to how silly they are in the context of the rest of the world. No where else in the world has this acceptance that it can't be fixed. They have reasonable answers, they thought about what was best for their society and they bought in to help their society. We are supposed to be the greatest country in the world. We should be able to stop acting like petulant children giving absurd excuses for why we need weapons to be easy to access because it is more important to have individual freedoms than it is to think of the society that has nurtured us. We like to play but not to be responsible for the outcome.

There needs to be a way to hold people accountable for being responsible owners. I can't tell you the amount of times I asked a parent how they stored the gun and heard in the bedside table. It made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end. They had no bloody idea about safety, risk or even what side was the business end of the weapon but they had a RIGHT to own it. We need to figure out how to make the wingnuts buy into making sure every owner gets educated re safety before they get their toys. The vast majority of gun deaths are not mass shootings. They are accidents. We can't drive a car without knowing how to parallel park. My kid could legally buy a gun before he could drink in some places. And do it without having the slightest idea about how to be safe. We need to ask, again and again, and hold the 'GUN RIGHTS AT ALL COSTS' crowd accountable for coming up with solutions to make sure people are safe. If they want people to have access they need to be held accountable for enabling that access when it ends badly in predictable situations
 
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Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

leswp1 said:
Until you get rid of the source of the disease it won't go well. When you have orgs like the NRA peddling fear of the boogie man and the fear someone will steal their rights people are going to believe them and wail about all the nonsense we have seen in this thread about 'rightz!!!'. Until you win the war of attitude you lose. The 'logic' of some of this stuff is so ridiculous you have to wonder about how someone can say it with a straight face. But they do. Read back. People in this thread buy it and post all the 'talking points' without any real thought to how silly they are in the context of the rest of the world. No where else in the world has this acceptance that it can't be fixed. They have reasonable answers, they thought about what was best for their society and they bought in to help their society. We are supposed to be the greatest country in the world. We should be able to stop acting like petulant children giving absurd excuses for why we need weapons to be easy to access because it is more important to have individual freedoms than it is to think of the society that has nurtured us. We like to play but not to be responsible for the outcome.

There needs to be a way to hold people accountable for being responsible owners. I can't tell you the amount of times I asked a parent how they stored the gun and heard in the bedside table. It made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end. They had no bloody idea about safety, risk or even what side was the business end of the weapon but they had a RIGHT to own it. We need to figure out how to make the wingnuts buy into making sure every owner gets educated re safety before they get their toys. The vast majority of gun deaths are not mass shootings. They are accidents. We can't drive a car without knowing how to parallel park. My kid could legally buy a gun before he could drink in some places. And do it without having the slightest idea about how to be safe. We need to ask, again and again, and hold the 'GUN RIGHTS AT ALL COSTS' crowd accountable for coming up with solutions to make sure people are safe. If they want people to have access they need to be held accountable for enabling that access when it ends badly in predictable situations
Click to expand...

The B/U makes me sick, and I agree it's a HUGE problem among too many gun owners.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Disgusted by the "they're coming for your guns!" message. Was listening to a story about gun owners with Alzheimer's. One of them didn't recognize his wife and locked himself in the bedroom, yelling out 'I have a gun'. She was terrified all night. By the next morning he had calmed down, but when she tried discussing getting rid of the gun or locking it in a safe, he said "they're not taking my guns!" Even when the dangers to himself and his loved ones were pointed out, he was more paranoid about having his guns taken away from him.

Another person they interviewed said guns were part of his identity, but he had at least agreed to lock them in a safe realizing his condition could make it dangerous for him and his family. Then he lost the code for his safe and has been very sad over not seeing his guns for years.
 
wolverineTrumpet said:
Disgusted by the "they're coming for your guns!" message. Was listening to a story about gun owners with Alzheimer's. One of them didn't recognize his wife and locked himself in the bedroom, yelling out 'I have a gun'. She was terrified all night. By the next morning he had calmed down, but when she tried discussing getting rid of the gun or locking it in a safe, he said "they're not taking my guns!" Even when the dangers to himself and his loved ones were pointed out, he was more paranoid about having his guns taken away from him.

Another person they interviewed said guns were part of his identity, but he had at least agreed to lock them in a safe realizing his condition could make it dangerous for him and his family. Then he lost the code for his safe and has been very sad over not seeing his guns for years.
Click to expand...

I doubt you’ll find many gun owners who think people like these should have their guns.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Drew S. said:
I doubt you’ll find many gun owners who think people like these should have their guns.
Click to expand...

You have literally made the argument countless times that these exact people should have guns. I guess you're saying you're in the minority :confused:

Also, still waiting for you answer.
 
Drew S. said:
I doubt you’ll find many gun owners who think people like these should have their guns.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the exact type of person who may not have the mental capabilities to control his own finances. I believe that is the exact type of person you argued should have weapons.
 
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