0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

So, you don't believe campaigns work? Cause it's been a consistent campaign of advertising and fear mongering. I'd like to think humanity is above that but I live in the United States so I know that's not true.

Yeah you are right...I am sure this family has a gun because of an NRA campaign. I am sure they were vehemently against guns before the fer mongering

Scooby fear mongering works on the people already buying the guns, it isnt forcing anyone else to buy them. This woman wasnt shot because of the NRA she was shot because someone in the household decided keep a loaded gun within grabbing distance of a kid. The NRA didnt make them do that, they did it on their own with their own stupid mind. There are much better, more legit ways, to go after the NRA but trying to make them responsible every time someone gets shot by accident is not one of them and has the doubly bad effect of making it look like you want to do exactly what they say you want to do.

And BTW you start using this narrative against the NRA then guess what you are doing...fear mongering. Are you then forcing people as well?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Yeah you are right...I am sure this family has a gun because of an NRA campaign. I am sure they were vehemently against guns before the fer mongering

Scooby fear mongering works on the people already buying the guns, it isnt forcing anyone else to buy them. This woman wasnt shot because of the NRA she was shot because someone in the household decided keep a loaded gun within grabbing distance of a kid. The NRA didnt make them do that, they did it on their own with their own stupid mind. There are much better, more legit ways, to go after the NRA but trying to make them responsible every time someone gets shot by accident is not one of them and has the doubly bad effect of making it look like you want to do exactly what they say you want to do.

And BTW you start using this narrative against the NRA then guess what you are doing...fear mongering. Are you then forcing people as well?

I have no interest in fear mongering against the NRA. That being said I do believe that there are a lot of people that were not against guns, but were not actively buying them for protection that are now doing so. That's a direct result of this campaign. Also, the amount of guns purchased increased exponentially when they campaigned that Obama was going to take them away. I know my father-in-law bought that hook, line, and sinker.

What I'd like to see is a campaign the other direction and actual legislation being passed. That's the only way to stem the tide.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I agree. I dont agree that the NRA forced anyone (especially this family) to buy guns. Sorry but personal responsibility has to play a part here. She was shot because of stupidity not some NRA campaign. Unless the NRA said keep a loaded gun in your mattress that doesnt pass the smell test.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I agree. I dont agree that the NRA forced anyone (especially this family) to buy guns. Sorry but personal responsibility has to play a part here. She was shot because of stupidity not some NRA campaign. Unless the NRA said keep a loaded gun in your mattress that doesnt pass the smell test.

You underestimate commercial advertising and it's influence over the persuadable. We live in a dumb country. And the dumb vote.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

You underestimate commercial advertising and it's influence over the persuadable. We live in a dumb country. And the dumb vote.

I’m with Scooby on this point. Did they make her buy a gun? Probably not. But the advertising and marketing does tend to work. It’s why we have lobbying and Madison Avenue.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I’m with Scooby on this point. Did they make her buy a gun? Probably not. But the advertising and marketing does tend to work. It’s why we have lobbying and Madison Avenue.

Sure, but it really doesn't take much to convince someone of something they already probably felt. Furthermore, there is nothing you can do about the lobbying. If the NRA wants to lobby or the gun industry wants to lobby, they have a right to do so.

It is a natural human instinct to be afraid. That's why with the first sign of a snowflake, I find myself on the highway behind someone driving 40 mph. The fear may be irrational, but it exists and you're not going to have much success trying to convince them they shouldn't be afraid or their fear is irrational.

If I were assigned with the task of trying to reduce the demand people have to own, carry or possess guns at all times, I'd start my own public service campaign. Maybe something like the crying Indian campaign against polluting from the 1970's. Have people relate horror stories of kids finding guns and killing themselves or a loved one. Horror stories of shooting someone in a road rage incident and having your life ruined. It's going to have to be a pervasive campaign. It's going to have to be very professionally done. It's going to have to tug at your heartstrings or really make you think.

That's what I'd do. Banning bump stocks and the rest of this nonsense that's usually proposed will get you squat.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

You underestimate commercial advertising and it's influence over the persuadable. We live in a dumb country. And the dumb vote.

The natural reply is that it's insane that all the people in this country would change their minds over an ad. That's been repeated over and over again with the russian influence.

But the reality is that the ads are not intended to change EVERYONE's mind. Just the right people- ones who will change their vote, or ones that will buy your stuff.

The NRA are kings in working in the fear domain. Getting *just* enough people to change their minds. In the end, profiting the gun industry the most.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Sure, but it really doesn't take much to convince someone of something they already probably felt. Furthermore, there is nothing you can do about the lobbying. If the NRA wants to lobby or the gun industry wants to lobby, they have a right to do so.

It is a natural human instinct to be afraid. That's why with the first sign of a snowflake, I find myself on the highway behind someone driving 40 mph. The fear may be irrational, but it exists and you're not going to have much success trying to convince them they shouldn't be afraid or their fear is irrational.

If I were assigned with the task of trying to reduce the demand people have to own, carry or possess guns at all times, I'd start my own public service campaign. Maybe something like the crying Indian campaign against polluting from the 1970's. Have people relate horror stories of kids finding guns and killing themselves or a loved one. Horror stories of shooting someone in a road rage incident and having your life ruined. It's going to have to be a pervasive campaign. It's going to have to be very professionally done. It's going to have to tug at your heartstrings or really make you think.

That's what I'd do. Banning bump stocks and the rest of this nonsense that's usually proposed will get you squat.

But the NRA has managed to stop that kind of advertising. Just like they have convinced congress to specifically outlaw the CDC to study gun violence.

What you suggest makes sense, if not for the NRA lobby.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I agree. I dont agree that the NRA forced anyone (especially this family) to buy guns. Sorry but personal responsibility has to play a part here. She was shot because of stupidity not some NRA campaign. Unless the NRA said keep a loaded gun in your mattress that doesnt pass the smell test.

Forcing is not the right word, and personal responsible for actions is certainly important. BUT, people decide to act based on information. The NRA and others have engaged in a decades-long campaign of misinformation and exaggeration, trying to convince people that the government is their enemy and that hordes of black criminals are going to descend upon the countryside to rape and pillage. Brainwashing works, particularly on the weak-minded. That is the basis of the entire industry of marketing.

The NRA relationship to gun deaths is garbage in, garbage out. When stupid people make stupid choices because of lies the liar does have some responsibility.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

But the NRA has managed to stop that kind of advertising. Just like they have convinced congress to specifically outlaw the CDC to study gun violence.

What you suggest makes sense, if not for the NRA lobby.

Correct.

 

[unofan]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Billions of dollars are spent annually in advertising, lobbying, and campaigning around the country even though such activities apparently don't have any effects whatsoever, at least according to Handy.

Someone go tell Budweiser to stop spending money on crap Super Bowl ads.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I’m with Scooby on this point. Did they make her buy a gun? Probably not. But the advertising and marketing does tend to work. It’s why we have lobbying and Madison Avenue.

Then you arent with him or alfa on this point. That is flat out what they are saying.

No one is saying advertising doesnt work...I am saying this woman would have had a gun without the NRA. Blaming the NRA in any way is ridiculous. Unless she was shot with an AR-15 you all sound like crazies.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Billions of dollars are spent annually in advertising, lobbying, and campaigning around the country even though such activities apparently don't have any effects whatsoever, at least according to Handy.

Someone go tell Budweiser to stop spending money on crap Super Bowl ads.

That isnt what I said...good lord for someone who loves to act high and mighty and uber pedantic around here you sure do like to ignore context from time to time.

Again...for the cheap seats...no one is saying the NRA lobby isnt powerful and that they dont fear monger. I hate the NRA and everything it stands for. What I am saying is the woman wasnt shot because of the NRA. Just like everyone who dies from alcohol related illness isnt dead because of Budweiser commercials. She (or whoever put the gun there) is responsible. Period. You are a lawyer you know better than that.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Forcing is not the right word, and personal responsible for actions is certainly important. BUT, people decide to act based on information. The NRA and others have engaged in a decades-long campaign of misinformation and exaggeration, trying to convince people that the government is their enemy and that hordes of black criminals are going to descend upon the countryside to rape and pillage. Brainwashing works, particularly on the weak-minded. That is the basis of the entire industry of marketing.

The NRA relationship to gun deaths is garbage in, garbage out. When stupid people make stupid choices because of lies the liar does have some responsibility.

And I am not defending the NRA nor do I like their tactics. I think guns are a cancer. But where is the proof this woman had a gun in the house because of what the NRA said. Hell most gun owners I know hate the NRA as much as I do if not more. (for obviously very different reasons) Gun culture is more than the NRA and the sooner we liberals realize that the better.

Here is a question: If the family was black would you still blame it on the NRA? The NRA is overtly racist and certainly doesnt promote the idea of black gun ownership. So were they brainwashed by the NRA even though they probably never saw an NRA ad and were never targeted? Of course not.

Guns are the problem...the NRA are one aspect of a much larger issue.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Then you arent with him or alfa on this point. That is flat out what they are saying.

No one is saying advertising doesnt work...I am saying this woman would have had a gun without the NRA. Blaming the NRA in any way is ridiculous. Unless she was shot with an AR-15 you all sound like crazies.

You are black and whiting this when the answer somewhere in the gray. The NRA is one of the primary sources of all the fear mongering about how dangerous society is and how you need a weapon to protect yourself. This message is repeated by all sorts of sources all over the place. Did they directly cause her to buy a gun, probably not. Did they indirectly influence the thought process that she went through to decide she needed one, probably. I think it is safe to say that the NRA has been the largest organization influencing the nations gun fetish, so placing some blame on them when "responsible gun owners" get shot with their own weapons is pretty fair.

 

[Drew S.]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Obama sold more guns than the NRA ever has.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

You are black and whiting this when the answer somewhere in the gray. The NRA is one of the primary sources of all the fear mongering about how dangerous society is and how you need a weapon to protect yourself. This message is repeated by all sorts of sources all over the place. Did they directly cause her to buy a gun, probably not. Did they indirectly influence the thought process that she went through to decide she needed one, probably. I think it is safe to say that the NRA has been the largest organization influencing the nations gun fetish, so placing some blame on them when "responsible gun owners" get shot with their own weapons is pretty fair.

I never disagreed with any of that. I said that isnt why the woman was shot. I am not black and whiting anything I am saying both things can be true. The NRA can be racist, fear mongering jerkoffs that only get sexual gratification by fellating a glock but that doesnt mean they are responsible for every incident that is gun related. That is what I am saying.

Gun culture is more than the NRA. Do you really think most of these people wouldnt have guns if the NRA didnt exist? If so I got oceanfront property in Wisconsin to sell you...dirt cheap!

 

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Obama sold more guns than the NRA ever has.

You are an idiot.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Here is a question: If the family was black would you still blame it on the NRA?

Yes. And I am assigning some blame, not all.

The NRA has, deliberately, helped create an environment where people think the world is more dangerous than it used to be. It objectively, measurably is not. Crime is lower -- both property crime and violent crime. Yet people are more paranoid and buying both more weapons and more powerful weapons to defend themselves. That counts for the Get A Brain, Morans! whites the NRA directly targets in their racist white nationalist cultural appeal, but also black and brown people who live in this Opposite World of supposed danger that the NRA has helped created in order to move product.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Blaming the NRA in any way is ridiculous.

I am not black and whiting anything..

That's about as black and white as it gets. Kep's last post summed it up pretty well, they have been the loudest voice of many that have created today's environment, they deserve blame.