119th congress: must be at least 75 to chair a committee!

[Handyman]

No, but if they're not in office it doesn't matter. How are so many of you so fucking clueless? What's the fucking alternative?

Fucking clueless? He is right! We elected these people to represent us. They hold office now. They need our votes to stay in office...why should anyone support a candidate that doesn't represent them and their ideals? THAT IS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT!

It is such a whiny copout to say "what is the alternative". It is lazy and damned near nihilistic. You are basically resigning yourself to the idea that this is as good as it gets. Well if that is the case stop the car I am getting out.

It is our jobs to hold these lazy fuckwits to account. We are the final check on the system and I am fucking tired of the Dem message being "vote for us because we may suck but they are worse!". Rewarding the Dems with more power as they side eyed and often helped tear down the guard rails of Democracy without serious changes in leadership and makeup is akin to giving your dogs lots of treats after they destroy the house, shit on the floor and bite the neighbors.

Whats the alternative...put the fear of god in the Democrats. If they think they will lose they will act. If we stick with the mantra "vote Blue no matter who" then this cycle of shit circling the drain will continue.

I mean seriously...you are defending an opposition party that opposes nothing. They arent even really fighting to reign ICE in while negotiating their budget. This AFTER a woman got murdered, kids got gassed and people are being disappeared. Why should anyone in any state being terrorized look at The Dems and say "hell yeah vote for them!"? I mean jesus like a dozen Dems voted for the bill that made this a fucking thing!

At this point there is no nuance...its very black and white. Polling shows it to. The majority hate this, and if The Dems are too weak willed and bought to listen to the people why should the voters support them? They arent owed our allegiance.

 

[Handyman]

But they ARE in office. They keep sitting on their asses doing nothing, they might not be.

The people are looking for someone, anyone, to stand up and fight back against this administration, not keep their heads down, don't cause a fuss, and hope Republicans get voted out of office. Hope is not a plan.

If Democrats want to retake control of government, give people a reason to vote for them. Something a little more concrete than, "but we're not Trump".

I mean seriously its not hard. You have to honestly not be paying attention not to see it...which The Dems are.

Crazy part...Ken Martin is from Minnesota and he is letting this be the strategy. I hated him when he ran the DFL and he is worse now.

 

[Kepler]

We need to declare certain votes as test votes for Dems. Vote our way or you get primaried.

Confirmations by this administration are a good example. Block them all. Throw grit in the gears. Stop the machinery of the executive while they are putting gestapo on our streets. Any Dem who votes to advance or confirm any Dump nominee gets primaried.

Same with funding the government. Stop the government. No excuses. No hiding behind "But what about...?!" The what abouts are screwed anyway by the Nazis. Make the government stop by the Constitutional means the Founders included and the procedural means the chambers have voted themselves. Use every tool and create new ones.

Remember how the GOP stole SCOTUS seats. Do that harder, faster, and longer, with everything and at all times, until we are given power back by the voters. They will respect that hardcore strategy. 93% of voters have no principles except self-interest, but they are swayed by vibes and one thing they hate is a wimp.

 

[rufus]

I apologize for the ad hom, rufus; I was tired.

Not voting out of spite does not work. That's all it means.

Many times in history, Left voters have flounced because the Left-Center and Center and Center-Right parties have not been fighting hard enough against the Far Right party. It has always ended with the Far Right party consolidating more power. Often, the Far Right eventually burns the whole democratic edifice and becomes all-powerful.

Here is what I want to do as a Far Lefty. Be a Far Lefty in public. Give the Left-Center party cover to propose and, in power, enact watered-down Left policies, and more importantly unwind Far Right policies. When the Far Left flounces they make the Schumer types the far left of the Overton window, and the voters think that Centrism is as "extreme" as Nick Fuentes. And that is why we lose.

Our job is to stretch the coverage. We run deep so the Dems can catch passes under the coverage. We run thirty yard routes so the Dems can make 10 yard gains.

If we can colonize the Democratic party and take over the leadership and run deep routes with half the electorate at our beck and call, great. Let's work on that in the primaries. That is what FDR did. But in the mean time, we have a role and we have no choice unless you know ten thousand A-class Marine snipers and some nitroglycerine experts.

Where the fuck did I say I wasn't voting?

Jesus, get off your elitist DC high horse and respond to what people actually say, not the high brow lecture you want to give.

 

[rufus]

In my state, Chris Pappas is running to fill Jeanne useless Shaheen's seat in the Senate. Now, I generally like Pappas, but I'm voting for whatever Democrat runs against him in the primary, especially if they are coming at him from the left.

He'll probably win the nomination though, and I'll vote for him in the general, especially if his opponent is John Sununu the Younger. But if his primary is close, if he doesn't just get handed the coronation, maybe it'll make him uncomfortable enough to stop doing politics as usual. Maybe he'll actually have to get down and dirty, and actually make changes to things. And if he doesn't, then he gets primaried again.

Sorry for the analogy, but you gotta beat the dog until he does what he's told. It's the only thing politicians understand. Look how all the Repubs acquiesce to Donnie.

 

[psych]

Am I one of them? Because I wont lie at this point I kind of want to be!

Of course not.

 

[Slap Shot]

Fucking clueless? He is right! We elected these people to represent us. They hold office now. They need our votes to stay in office...why should anyone support a candidate that doesn't represent them and their ideals? THAT IS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT!

It is such a whiny copout to say "what is the alternative".

This country is going to ride or die on the middle and the radical left has no bearing on it whatsoever. Get a fucking clue. You have no alternative. Good luck with your righteous indignation.

 

[Kepler]

Where the fuck did I say I wasn't voting?

Jesus, get off your elitist DC high horse and respond to what people actually say, not the high brow lecture you want to give.

So much for apologizing.

I took what you were saying as part of the chorus that said we could not vote for Dems if they didn't do what we wanted. If you did not mean that then my bad. My OP was we have to vote Dem and try to fix the Dems, because demonizing the Dems and holding our breath feels good but makes everything worse. That provoked a shitstorm because apparently people equate throwing a fit with Being A Serious Person.

As for the "elitist DC high horse shit," that's a worm in your guys' minds, not mine. I do not give a shit where you are from or where you went to school, or didn't, and whether you have worked in gummint or business or academia. Don't cast me as the villain in the stupid rom com that apparently runs 24/7 in your heads. I am super judgey judgey, but it's on ethics and intellect. If you think I am slighting you then maybe you think you're dumb or unethical? I don't think you are either, for the record. I would not bother talking to you, any of you, if I thought that. There are people on the cafe I think that about and they're blocked.

 

[Kepler]

In my state, Chris Pappas is running to fill Jeanne useless Shaheen's seat in the Senate. Now, I generally like Pappas, but I'm voting for whatever Democrat runs against him in the primary, especially if they are coming at him from the left.

He'll probably win the nomination though, and I'll vote for him in the general, especially if his opponent is John Sununu the Younger. But if his primary is close, if he doesn't just get handed the coronation, maybe it'll make him uncomfortable enough to stop doing politics as usual. Maybe he'll actually have to get down and dirty, and actually make changes to things. And if he doesn't, then he gets primaried again.

Sorry for the analogy, but you gotta beat the dog until he does what he's told. It's the only thing politicians understand. Look how all the Repubs acquiesce to Donnie.

This is all I was saying as "vote blue no matter who." You and I are in violent agreement.

 

[Handyman]

I am not...and I dont have to be. Omar will win my district, Flanagan will be Senator and that is what matters so I will vote for them. I will deal with Governor if I have to but I likely wont.

Beyond that The Dems have to earn my vote. And allow me some spoilers: not one Democrat outside of maybe AOC has done so. And no candidate that isnt running on Abolishing ICE and punishing the Trumpist will ever get a vote from me. If that hurts your feelings...take it up with Renee Good.

 

[Kepler]

Yeah, don't vote and put Republicans in power. That'll help.

I am sorry rufus, I was conflating you with Handy.

Handy I think you are both smart and ethical but I do not agree with your strategy. I think many times in history people have tried this as a threat. It doesn't work. The political train just keeps rolling and without you on it it runs that much more in the wrong direction.

Nobody ever wins by losing.

 

[psych]

This is all I was saying as "vote blue no matter who." You and I are in violent agreement.

Was trying to help you guys out, as I third this message. You don’t divide your forces with the enemy directly in front of you.

 

[psych]

Yeah, don't vote and put Republicans in power. That'll help.

I am sorry rufus, I was conflating you with Handy.

Handy I think you are both smart and ethical but I do not agree with your strategy. I think many times in history people have tried this as a threat. It doesn't work. The political train just keeps rolling and without you on it it runs that much more in the wrong direction.

Nobody ever wins by losing.

As evidenced by, oh, I don’t know, losing the fucking 2024 election.

 

[Kepler]

I have been listening to a podcast called Revolutions, and specifically to the Russian Revolution season. Highly recommend. None of these battles and controversies and disagreements are new. Every permutation of approaches has been tried before. One thing we know does not work is staying on the sidelines out of principle to pressure the people with representative power to move towards them. It's always a temptation, the advocates always have Reasons, the problem is it doesn't work. The fasc love when we try it.

Here's how to win:

1. Have a big tent public-facing organization.
2. Have them talk moderation to gain office then govern strongly partisan. The exact opposite of what we have done for 50 years.
3. Have a strong backbone of radicals always pushing behind the scenes, but never in front of the cameras. Have them insinuate themselves whenever possible into the Centrist machine, at all levels both among representatives and bureaucrats. Be ready.
4. Recognize that the lunatic bomb-throwing wing, which puts the literal fear of life and limb into the enemy, has uses. Fulminate against them in public. In private, let them cook. Allow them to destabilize the ruling elite and constantly harass them. The Right promises people safety at the cost of their rights. Prove that going to the fasc gives people neither.
5. Fight every little procedural battle to the end, never give an inch, make the fasc bleed energy and time. Fascism is a spasm, not a philosophy. It relies on conflict; it has a very small window. Grind it into dust. Exhaust it. Don't match its hystrionics; drown it in process and legalese and slow rolling. Use friction and inertia, the two most powerful forces in politics. Cut down trees in front of them. Throw oil under their tires.

That's the recipe.

 

[Handyman]

This is going to be their answer. Better training...cause the Gestapo only was bad because they just didnt do enough drills!

Maybe one day people will stop asking the people with hammers to help them get rid of their headaches.

 

[Handyman]

Was trying to help you guys out, as I third this message. You don’t divide your forces with the enemy directly in front of you.

I respect your analogy...but you dont follow incompetant leadership into a slaughter either. Thats what we have here. They are too stupid now to even listen to polling...

The Democrats will be fine without my vote if they pick someone I don't like. Most of them have no electoral tie to me anyways. But I am not going to jump on the grenade for Amy Fucking Klobuchar or Gavin Newsom. You want to thats your choice my friend and go with God I get it. I have spent enough time ignoring the things I care about and believe in to prop up and support Democrats who dont even pay lip service to it anymore. Sorry but thats not gonna work for me brother.

Things could change...maybe an actual Democrat with Leftist-ish beliefs will get the nom and I will be inspired to support them. I hope so! But I wont be holding my breathe. The average Dem pol doesnt want anything to change and has proven that every day since Obama embarrassed The Establishment in '08. No one who supports ICE being abolished, Nuremburg-esque tribunals, crypto reform, Medicare for All/Socialized medicine or admitting Israel is committing a genocide will have a chance. Those are my lines in the sand. YMMV.

 

[Bronco]

I mean this in the most friendly and respectful way. Contact your local Democratic Party and start attending meetings. If there isn't anyone good enough then make some noise.

I have been becoming more active in my county's Dem Party. It is a rural county so don't expect much, but it feels better than sitting here watching my country go to shit.