UMaine 25-26: Marques My Word: Back to the Big Time

[umhockey91]

Lots of money wasn't it. I think something was needed but boy they went all out.
Its shitty timing too cause thats when the hockey landscape changed seismically.

Exactly. Maine takes so long to do things that when they actually do.....things have already changed again. We can argue about what exact changes should have happened for $50 million but updates were definitely needed. There will still be a lot of NCAA changes coming down the pike.....lawsuits, rulings, etc. But in the meantime the UM athletic dept. needs to navigate this BS. They need to prioritize a couple of sports for athlete payments....much like the big time programs pour their money in football and hoops. Obviously at Maine men's hockey needs to be a priority.....maybe along with men's and women's hoops with a $100 million facility opening in a couple of years.

 

[umhockey91]

Yes. NIL money comes from outside of the athletic department. There has to be some sort of exchange, like "here's $50,000 and you need to post three instagram stories about our business" or whatever.

Alternatively, there is revenue sharing which is a direct payment from the athletic department to an athlete in exchange for that athlete playing their sport for the school.

Both have 3,000,000 loopholes.

I am not entirely sure that the concept of NIL is in line with the Alfond Foundation's philosophy- which is fine! And why the Alfond Foundation giving to facilities and operations is helpful, it frees up theoretical other donors to give to NIL or wherever. But again, just tell us! Or tell us it's handled! Or tell us that the University of Maine is putting its foot down and isn't going to participate in athlete payment so we can all adjust expectations!

Amen!

 

[grooverider]

If the team continues to shit the bed you can bet your bottom dollar there will be some money dropped from a few sources. Said sources are OK with buying a team of good players to kick the piss out of BC/BU/UHN. Goodwill has been bought with them last few years (donors) especially with the run last year. Welcome to the world of the rich influencing college sports. They can buy everything else in life.

Yes I have had conversations with people who are in the know about certain people wanting to dump cash into the program and are not happy with the losses this year especially at home and last weekend.

 

[NorthMike]

It was only opened this year.

They haven’t even had a recruiting cycle to show off the building.

Or do you think the construction site was an attraction for recruits.

Can you at all be reasonable?

This is a rebuild year with 13 new players and your best performers are freshmen.

You really need to stop carrying on with this idiot line of thinking that the rink money was a waste because the on ice results aren’t what you want and you can blame recruiting when the better players are freshman.

Love you Wally, but you are being an idiot.

NorthernMike is too.

You both forget that the Alfonds donated it for specific purpose.

You both forget it WASN’T money they could save and do something else with.

You both have not even given it one cycle to attract recruits.

No doubt you both would complain about facilities if they didn’t renovate.

You both are dimwits for all of these reasons.

Thanks for your thoughts sparkee, but I never said the facility upgrade was bad, it was needed. If anything it was late to getting it done, but there was no money.
Also fully understand where the money came from and it cant be used for nil. I never said it should have.
Go back and read what I said.
By the way Im not sold on the theory that nil dough is going to rule recruiting. It may but we need more time and evidence. Maybe the evidence exists, no idea dont know many facts about it, just read what people want to say.

 

[AMC]

Thanks for your thoughts sparkee, but I never said the facility upgrade was bad, it was needed. If anything it was late to getting it done, but there was no money.
Also fully understand where the money came from and it cant be used for nil. I never said it should have.
Go back and read what I said.
By the way Im not sold on the theory that nil dough is going to rule recruiting. It may but we need more time and evidence. Maybe the evidence exists, no idea dont know many facts about it, just read what people want to say.

I think there's a level at which you need to have some money to get a seat at the table to be taken seriously when you make your pitch on coaching and facilities and fan support. I'm absolutely not saying "get the checkbooks out to get the next Gavin McKenna his $750,000."

 

[Sparkee]

If the team continues to shit the bed you can bet your bottom dollar there will be some money dropped from a few sources. Said sources are OK with buying a team of good players to kick the piss out of BC/BU/UHN. Goodwill has been bought with them last few years (donors) especially with the run last year. Welcome to the world of the rich influencing college sports. They can buy everything else in life.

Yes I have had conversations with people who are in the know about certain people wanting to dump cash into the program and are not happy with the losses this year especially at home and last weekend.

Seems a bit broken or backwards. If the team continues to shit the bed they get more donation money.

I would think if the team shits the bed I wouldn’t want to throw money at a losing cause. It should be that when the team is doing well they get rewarded with more donation money.

Otherwise you are encouraging them to do bad… “Hey guys, if we do shitty we get paid more by these donors.”.

Tell your friends to withhold donations until the team does better. Or make their donations unlock if the team has better performance.

For example, here is 1 million dollars. You get all of it if you win every game. You get none of it if you are a .500 squad. The amount released is a linear relationship with your winning rate over .500.

That would encourage the entire team to work together to win if they know they get paid more when they do.

 

[Sparkee]

In my profession our bonuses are based on milestones we get graded on.

Wouldn’t you know it we achieve all our goals on or ahead of time when we all know the goals we need to complete to get max bonus.

This isn’t a difficult concept… you want to get paid more then do the things I ask on or ahead of time.

Most of us chip in at night time or on weekends even though we aren’t required. We know we can make enough for a new car, or a vacation, or your kids college tuition, etc… if we work a little harder to make sure we hit our milestones.

If you don’t give this pay for performance bonus then nobody would work extra and we likely wouldn’t hit all our deadlines.

This isn’t rocket science.

 

[NorthMike]

Seems a bit broken or backwards. If the team continues to shit the bed they get more donation money.

I would think if the team shits the bed I wouldn’t want to throw money at a losing cause. It should be that when the team is doing well they get rewarded with more donation money.

Otherwise you are encouraging them to do bad… “Hey guys, if we do shitty we get paid more by these donors.”.

Tell your friends to withhold donations until the team does better. Or make their donations unlock if the team has better performance.

For example, here is 1 million dollars. You get all of it if you win every game. You get none of it if you are a .500 squad. The amount released is a linear relationship with your winning rate over .500.

That would encourage the entire team to work together to win if they know they get paid more when they do.

I'm just thinking and probably off base, but the reverenced support may be because Barr is working his butt off and is very personally invested in success, doing his job well, couple this with the backing the U has shown in the program by paying Barr, the facility update (but thanks alfond), and maybe most important the fan support.
However , these donors can see like we cant that the buy in may not be there with the players so these donors say ok we need a different player profile or player motivation level that takes money. I can help.

Ok then this concept opens up a whole can of worms that Im not sure at all if it would work.
Cause then you get players for the money, players who really arent proven for D1.
Like you said getting paid before they produce. Their not established pro athletes who get contracts and get paid well based on their proven skill. The D1 players arent under contract obligations, just enter the portal next year and see who might pay me the most. It all seems wrong.
This could be why ncaa hockey as we know it could be much different one day not too far off.

 

[umhockey91]

I think there's a level at which you need to have some money to get a seat at the table to be taken seriously when you make your pitch on coaching and facilities and fan support. I'm absolutely not saying "get the checkbooks out to get the next Gavin McKenna his $750,000."

Agreed. Maine probably needs to spend $100K-$200K to get some of these guys to take them seriously.....if Maine had an annual $500K to pay 3-5 guys I think that would help get them a annual seat at the Top 15 table.

 

[Sparkee]

I'm just thinking and probably off base, but the reverenced support may be because Barr is working his butt off and is very personally invested in success, doing his job well, couple this with the backing the U has shown in the program by paying Barr, the facility update (but thanks alfond), and maybe most important the fan support.
However , these donors can see like we cant that the buy in may not be there with the players so these donors say ok we need a different player profile or player motivation level that takes money. I can help.

Ok then this concept opens up a whole can of worms that Im not sure at all if it would work.
Cause then you get players for the money, players who really arent proven for D1.
Like you said getting paid before they produce. Their not established pro athletes who get contracts and get paid well based on their proven skill. The D1 players arent under contract obligations, just enter the portal next year and see who might pay me the most. It all seems wrong.
This could be why ncaa hockey as we know it could be much different one day not too far off.

In the scenario I presented it is unlocking of NIL after you’ve played the season. So the money is for next year’s team. You have to demonstrate your winning percentage and the money becomes available for next year. In that regard, it encourages retention. Meaning, if you know you had a good year you will be paid better next year and be on a good team coming back because of this retention. If your team is bad, then there isn’t much to look forward too. So you hit the portal. But that is ok for us because if the team sucks we would want to retain less and would welcome a rebuild.

 

[NorthMike]

In the scenario I presented it is unlocking of NIL after you’ve played the season. So the money is for next year’s team. You have to demonstrate your winning percentage and the money becomes available for next year. In that regard, it encourages retention. Meaning, if you know you had a good year you will be paid better next year and be on a good team coming back because of this retention. If your team is bad, then there isn’t much to look forward too. So you hit the portal. But that is ok for us because if the team sucks we would want to retain less and would welcome a rebuild.

Yeah that would make more sense. Im sure plenty of foolish schools will pay up front though.
Its a mess.

 

[grooverider]

Seems a bit broken or backwards. If the team continues to shit the bed they get more donation money.

I would think if the team shits the bed I wouldn’t want to throw money at a losing cause. It should be that when the team is doing well they get rewarded with more donation money.

Otherwise you are encouraging them to do bad… “Hey guys, if we do shitty we get paid more by these donors.”.

Tell your friends to withhold donations until the team does better. Or make their donations unlock if the team has better performance.

For example, here is 1 million dollars. You get all of it if you win every game. You get none of it if you are a .500 squad. The amount released is a linear relationship with your winning rate over .500.

That would encourage the entire team to work together to win if they know they get paid more when they do.

Key point in my statement is that the goodwill was bought and paid for last year. The taste of winning hockey east is leading to not being satisfied with where we are now. Other programs are doing it. Eventually if you want a good team you will need to buy them. I get the whole let's build a team thing but it works in the pros. You pay your A team and you fill out the roster with the guys who are happy to be there.

 

[tony potter]

why are the upper classmen not scoring goals? how long has it been since poirier has scored a goal i know hes only a freshman

 

[McGoverners]

In the scenario I presented it is unlocking of NIL after you’ve played the season. So the money is for next year’s team. You have to demonstrate your winning percentage and the money becomes available for next year. In that regard, it encourages retention. Meaning, if you know you had a good year you will be paid better next year and be on a good team coming back because of this retention. If your team is bad, then there isn’t much to look forward too. So you hit the portal. But that is ok for us because if the team sucks we would want to retain less and would welcome a rebuild.

This model takes development off the table and ensures a downward slide. Not to mention the impact it would have on recruiting ...

 

[Mac910]

why are the upper classmen not scoring goals? how long has it been since poirier has scored a goal i know hes only a freshman

This is something that I find to be more concerning than some of the issues with the WHL players. Think about the returns that see icetime: 4, 11, 12, 14, 15, 20, 26, 29, 30, 38, 44

Of this group, I can only confidently say that 4, 12, 14, 29, 38 are better than last year. The last two are playing in fourth line roles. That leaves 11, 15, 20, 26, 44 - all top 6/9 and two of our 3 most veteran defenseman. You can make the argument that most of that group is either the same or even worse than last year. Everyone has talked about 30 and 44s struggles, but where the hell have Russell, Freel, and Nadeau been of late?

 

[Drew S.]

This is something that I find to be more concerning than some of the issues with the WHL players. Think about the returns that see icetime: 4, 11, 12, 14, 15, 20, 26, 29, 30, 38, 44

Of this group, I can only confidently say that 4, 12, 14, 29, 38 are better than last year. The last two are playing in fourth line roles. That leaves 11, 15, 20, 26, 44 - all top 6/9 and two of our 3 most veteran defenseman. You can make the argument that most of that group is either the same or even worse than last year. Everyone has talked about 30 and 44s struggles, but where the hell have Russell, Freel, and Nadeau been of late?

I think it’s pretty obvious their success came in large part because of who they were playing with. If you’re on a line with Harrison Scott your numbers are going to look good. Someone can fact check me on this but I believe a lot of Poirier’s damage has come in the garbage games.

 

[amkirby10]

This is something that I find to be more concerning than some of the issues with the WHL players. Think about the returns that see icetime: 4, 11, 12, 14, 15, 20, 26, 29, 30, 38, 44

Of this group, I can only confidently say that 4, 12, 14, 29, 38 are better than last year. The last two are playing in fourth line roles. That leaves 11, 15, 20, 26, 44 - all top 6/9 and two of our 3 most veteran defenseman. You can make the argument that most of that group is either the same or even worse than last year. Everyone has talked about 30 and 44s struggles, but where the hell have Russell, Freel, and Nadeau been of late?

Russell at least brings energy to the game. He plays hard, gets in people's faces, and crashes the net. He's someone I notice out there. He hasn't been scoring a lot, but I think he still impacts the game. Nadeau has had an up-and-down year imo, he's had points where I've praised him for being more physical and more of a penalty killer, but he also has a penchant for horrible turnovers that lead to goals against, often from trying to do too much around the offensive blue line. He has 10 goals and 17 points this season (already as many goals as all of last year) so its not like he's done nothing offensively either. And Freel, to be honest, just isn't very talented. He's not that big, he's not that fast, he's not great with the puck, he just is kinda there. He scored a lot of goals early in the season last year on tips and deflections on the power play that juiced up his scoring numbers. I then remember him seeming to go ice cold in the second half last year as well. I don't really expect a lot from him to be honest, at least not on offense.

 

[Jacob0804]

If we're going to talk about underachievers, I'll through Scott in the mix. Aside from faceoffs, he doesn't bring much to the table IMO. Maybe I was expecting too much coming in.

 

[Mac910]

Russell at least brings energy to the game. He plays hard, gets in people's faces, and crashes the net. He's someone I notice out there. He hasn't been scoring a lot, but I think he still impacts the game. Nadeau has had an up-and-down year imo, he's had points where I've praised him for being more physical and more of a penalty killer, but he also has a penchant for horrible turnovers that lead to goals against, often from trying to do too much around the offensive blue line. He has 10 goals and 17 points this season (already as many goals as all of last year) so its not like he's done nothing offensively either. And Freel, to be honest, just isn't very talented. He's not that big, he's not that fast, he's not great with the puck, he just is kinda there. He scored a lot of goals early in the season last year on tips and deflections on the power play that juiced up his scoring numbers. I then remember him seeming to go ice cold in the second half last year as well. I don't really expect a lot from him to be honest, at least not on offense.

That's probably true. I would agree on Russell and Freel. I would've just hoped for more consistency from JN - sometimes he's far and away the best player on the ice, yet others he is completely absent and/or the turnovers that have had a knack to kill us this year.

 

[AMC]

To be fair, Barr did say that it was going to be a bit of a rebuilding year. We just didn't listen.